RBL Helmet

[mike_vee]

Described as "Royal British Legion Band - Musician's Home Service Helmet - British Army 1950s" .

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324675689...4AAOSwCbtgxkLr

Opinions


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[mike_vee]

Have done a bit of digging and one RBL band that did wear the type of helmet shown , Brentwood Royal British Legion Youth Band.

I know nothing at all about helmets , especially when they were made but am suspicious about this one for various reasons :

1. Royal British Legion marking - RBL title was granted in 1971.

2. The Brentwood band wasn't formed until 1990.

3. The badge worn by the Brentwood band was different , they wore the 'new style' Lion Head that was introduce in 1987 (see photo).

So , while this could 'possibly' be an older helmet it was not used by an RBL band any earlier than 1990 and while the helmet plate is probably original the center badge is not correct.

NB. At some point , post 2010 , the Brentwood Royal British Legion Youth Band appears to have stopped using the RBL name ( funding/RBL problems ?) and was renamed the BRENTWOOD IMPERIAL YOUTH BAND . They wear a similar style uniform and helmet but with a different center piece and badges/emblems.

[Home Guard]

I am no expert, but looks to me like a possible good helmet that has had badges attached, and the helmet plate is a fantasy one created to go along with the stamped band title inside.

Terry

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Home Guard

I am no expert, but looks to me like a possible good helmet that has had badges attached, and he helmet plate is a fantasy one created to go along with the stamped band title inside.

Terry

Terry , the seller is trying to cover all the bases :

1. appears to be original issue from around the 1920s/30s.

2. Fixtures from the 1950s

3. Gilt other ranks plate for the Royal British Legion band to the front with Queen's Crown. (must be post 1971)


The helmet plate is the same as worn by RBL band in 1990 and helmets with these are still worn and probably purchased by the band today.

Repro Home Service Helmets Other Ranks

Supplied to and used by British Army bands and Cadet bands.

Another interesting point is that there is a size label on the leather band ....
...... British size 7 and metric size 57 . I hadn't realised they used cm. in the 1920s/30s .

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[grenadierguardsman]

I must say, they look silly without the curb chain.
Andy

[grey_green_acorn]

Mike,
I can’t comment on the specific RBL band helmet but in terms of blue cloth home service helmets it is my understanding that from the early 1970s there was a general trend to revive the use of helmets by some infantry bands and corps of drums in full dress.

As the blue cloth home service helmet was withdrawn to stores in 1914, the few survivors, not in museums, were in a poor state and usually only in small head sizes. To meet demand, initially police helmets were used with a variety of fittings and helmet plates, some of which were made in Pakistan (see AZAM posts and albums). It is therefore likely that any 1970s/early 1980s band helmets that come onto the open market are likely to be ‘put togethers’. Also some bands, for example KORBR and Devon & Dorsets, adopted the Royal Marine Helmet WP with a regimental helmet plate. Some corps bands also adopted blue cloth helmets and with the divisional bands have followed through the amalgamation changes to subsequent reductions.

From the about the mid 1980s, newly manufactured blue cloth helmets were sourced from UK suppliers that were generally funded by the bands concerned. It seems only from about 2010 or more recently that a standardised ‘helmet army bandsman’ with gilt fittings has come onto the stores inventory with (for fittings) consecutive NSNs and Pattern Numbers.

For example: Helmet Plate with Queen’s Crown in bright electro gilt plate NSN 8455-99-869-3677

Tim

[mike_vee]

Thanks Tim , I appreciate all the information.

As I've said , I know nothing about helmets but the claim it was an "original issue" just didn't seem right and I knew the RBL badge was not the correct type.

The Brentwood Royal British Legion Youth Band was a reasonable size , so possibly got a good discount when ordering helmets in the 1990's and as the band is still going today (under the "Imperial" name) they must need to buy replacements.

I'm not interested in bidding/buying the helmet but just wanted to increase my knowledge on the subject.

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[Mike_2817]

From about 1986 'Helmets Home Service' were sourced paid for by regimental PRI funds for the RAOC band the RAOC Junior Leaders Corps of Drums using older re-cycled helmets before this, with the badges also being regimental purchase

I have a 1986 RAOC Band Badge as well as a 1993 RLC example purchased from the Corps shop from production overrun.

The RBL helmet looks odd as it seems to be using a RBL Band Collar Badge, in effect double crowning it!

[grey_green_acorn]

For interest here are the MOD specifications from 2011 for the helmet fittings showing NSNs and Pattern Numbers.

Tim

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Mike_2817

The RBL helmet looks odd as it seems to be using a RBL Band Collar Badge, in effect double crowning it!

In the RBL band photo it looks to me as though the centre badge is a larger version of the lion head used on the bandsman beret badges , possibly a special order ?

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[Restrikes-ok]

Have a full dress drummers Mercian uniform for sale by the by (with helmet). Just while on the subject.

[mike_vee]

Well , the RBL Bandsman helmet went for £340.00 .

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