WW1 4th 5th Royal Scots glengarry

[David Moore]

Hello, I recently bought this 4/5th RS glengarry from a local flea market. Although it has no internal markings, because of its construction I feel it is probably WW1. The badge and backing appear to have been in situ for a long time, the cotta pin has verdigris. As is often the case the tails have been removed. As the 4/5th RS cap badge is much faked I would be grateful to have any opinions on its authenticity. The badge has black lugs, domed centre and is well made.
David

[cbuehler]

It may well be of WW1 vintage, but could also be slightly later. The overall shape and the leather binding is more typical of that time period, although officers could and did have leather bindings into the WW2 era. Most WW1 Glens had silk or sometimes rayon binding for ORs, but leather was available for them as well, and I think this was a private purchase Glen.
The tartan badge backing is unusual as most were plain black, but it is possible the 4/5th wore these instead. I don't know. It certainly appears to have been on the cap for a very long time and the badge appears to be the only one ever worn on it.
As is unfortunately often the case, the silk ribbons on the back are gone. The silk has a tendency to decay over time, and they did not hold up very well in service either. One sometimes sees replaced ribbons stitched on.

CB

[JerryBB]

With the leather edge trim I would accept this was great war

[David Moore]

Thank you for your reply CB, the tartan backing threw me as well. I have another 4/5th cap badge in my collection with black silk backing, looks to my eyes that it came from the same die.

DM

[Home Guard]

Interesting cut of he tartan backing. I wonder if that was a specific cut, or if any piece of tartan was acceptable?

Terry

[David Moore]

I think the backing is Hunting Stewart, but cut quite differently to the more contemporary battalions.
DM

[Home Guard]

David, I agree, the red and yellow stripes usually indicate Hunting Stewart, while red and white is usually MacKenzie.

Terry

[David Moore]

Hi Terry, I agree, Close up the white line looks like it could be faded yellow? I’ve also included pictures of my other 4/5 RS which has the black silky backing, although very creased and folded.
DM

[Luke H]

The cap badge is genuine, a nice example.

[David Moore]

Hi Luke, do you think the glengarry badge could also be genuine? I think it is as it is very close to the second badge, just a bit more shaped and polished.
DM

[Luke H]

Yes it’s good too. I’d be quite convinced it goes with the bonnet.

[David Moore]

Thank you Luke, I was over the moon when I found the glengarry. I usually associate tartan badge backing with the tam o Shantel rather than glengarry.
DM

[Paul Spellman]

David,
I wouldn’t associate Dicing on a 4th or 5th Bn RS WW1 period Glengarry due to their Rifle status

I agree with you about the tartan patch also, unusual although the Liverpool Scottish done their own thing and wore one on a Glengarry but in more modern times
Paul

[Paul Spellman]

Couple of quick images of Glengarry worn by 4 th 5th

[David Moore]

Hi Paul, not sure what glengarry the 4/5 RS wore. But this style of dicing is correct for the regular battalions of the period, I can’t find a single photograph of the 4/5 RS so just don’t know what they wore. My plan is to send images over to RS regimental museum as they have been very helpful in the past.
DM