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  #1  
Old 23-05-12, 01:31 PM
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Default Reposting Unknown SA Badges

Hi,
This is a repost of a thread in the general unknown list, but as it is SA related and to date there has been no feedback, I am reposting it here, in the hope that there is feedback:

I have the following South African related badges that need some clarification/thoughts on please.

1. Brass collar (or cap/slouch hat) badge with coat of arms and title "Gewapen en Regtvaardig" of Stellaland. Stellaland was a boer republic in the area of Bechuanaland and in existance between 1882 and 1885. (see Wikipedia for a full story). The closest reference I could find to a military unit was in 'The armed forces of South Africa' by Major G. Tylden who refers to a Stellaland Light Horse, 30 strong raised by Major Dennison for the Bechuanaland Campaign of 1896-1897. (note period is post the existance of Stellaland). Could this possible a badge from this unit??

2. SMB title (shoulder or slouch hat) - Was thinking WWI Southern Mouted Brigade, but can only find reference to a Southern Mounted Rifles. Of interest this was found together with the Stellaland badge in the bottom of a toolbox full of brass nuts, bolts, etc at a local carboot sale.

3. A two piece badge which appears to be made from a WWII SA general service springbok collar mounted onto the wreath of a brass RAF cap badge.
Appears well made and obviously done for a reason. My opinion would be Cadet related. Maybe a Cadet band.

4. A small SA related rank pip of type I have not yet seen. Image shows a SA five point rank star on a 5 sided castle rank badge. The regular rank badges used to be a 5 point star with SA coat of arms and a 5 sided castle with SA coat of arms. I have not seen a rank badge showing both devices together and the coat of arms is surrounded by laurel wreath intead of the motto 'Ex Unitate Vires'. Could this be a prototype badge?

Regards
Steven
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  #2  
Old 23-05-12, 02:20 PM
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Brian Conyngham Brian Conyngham is offline
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Steven

Ist badge could be a school prefect/matric badge, even today many sports codes who operate in that region still use the name Stellaland, the 3rd combo badge suspect is a fantasy piece made in a workshop (trench art).

I am sure I have seen the rank pip before somewhere but will have a lookout where suspect you are correct that it could be a prototype.

Regards
Brian
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  #3  
Old 23-05-12, 03:37 PM
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Thanks Brian,

Did not realise the name Stellaland was still in use. Badge definately looks 'homemade'.

The 2-piece fiction item is well put together, but does not appear to have been done to mislead anyone. Thats why I thought it may belong to a cadet unit or cadet band. I used to have a picture of a school cadet drum major with a similar badge. If I do find it I will post.

Regards
Steven
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  #4  
Old 23-05-12, 05:44 PM
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Hi Steven, the Stellaland badge is very nice. I have been searching, but can't tie it to any unit. Likewise with the SMB. The pip may be Homelands, as they did use some SA items or variations of them at the start. The last one is likely made in the field. I have a few items like this in my collection. Maybe due to boredom, or thinking that they could do a better job than the original badge. All I have seen are well made. Regards Andrew
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  #5  
Old 24-05-12, 08:15 AM
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Thanks Andrew.
Its always the anomolies that gets so confusing, but then it does add the interest factor.
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  #6  
Old 24-05-12, 05:38 PM
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That is for sure.
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Old 08-08-21, 02:17 PM
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Just following up on a very old thread I started.

The SMB title may be "Stokes Mortar Battery" - I found mention of this unit among a list of South African Units receiving the War and Victory medals. A total of 94 personnel. Looked through my copy of Tylden, but dont see mention of this unit. Can anyone give more information on this WWI unit.

Regards
Steven
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Old 08-08-21, 05:22 PM
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I'd be rather surprised if were a badge worn by members of a battery using Mr Stokes drainpipe, , the men of the trench mortar company were simply drawn from the various companies from the four regiments of the brigade and worn their own badges., they were normally the sort who a Company Sergeant Major was happy to lose.
Moreover, mortarmen were unwelcome guests in the front line because their presence often invited a degree of retaliation and it certainly was not good to be captured by the men you might have just bombarded, so much so that not all actually wore their flaming grenade badge at the front.
Wilfred Stokes was the managing director of Ransomes in Ipswich, interestingly, his invention was at first rejected by the War Office before about twelve thousand entered service with the BEF which the 1st SA Brigade was, in effect, part of, after deployment



Quote:
Originally Posted by Milmed View Post
Just following up on a very old thread I started.

The SMB title may be "Stokes Mortar Battery" - I found mention of this unit among a list of South African Units receiving the War and Victory medals. A total of 94 personnel. Looked through my copy of Tylden, but dont see mention of this unit. Can anyone give more information on this WWI unit.

Regards
Steven

Last edited by Frank Kelley; 08-08-21 at 05:27 PM.
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  #9  
Old 09-08-21, 03:10 AM
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Hi Frank,
I too thought it strange that there would be a separate badge, but then why would they single out 94 soldiers and issue them with medals named to "Stokes Mortar Battery"?

From what I have been able to find via Google, the South African SMB were attached to the South African Horse in East Africa and not of the 4 Regiments of the Brigade in Europe, so that may explain its existence!

Regards
Steven
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  #10  
Old 12-08-21, 09:18 PM
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Well in that case, given that the badge show in your original post is very clearly not a British made example, you have, I think, answered your own question!
A very nice thing to have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Milmed View Post
Hi Frank,
I too thought it strange that there would be a separate badge, but then why would they single out 94 soldiers and issue them with medals named to "Stokes Mortar Battery"?

From what I have been able to find via Google, the South African SMB were attached to the South African Horse in East Africa and not of the 4 Regiments of the Brigade in Europe, so that may explain its existence!

Regards
Steven
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  #11  
Old 03-09-21, 07:50 PM
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Brian Conyngham Brian Conyngham is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milmed View Post
Just following up on a very old thread I started.

The SMB title may be "Stokes Mortar Battery" - I found mention of this unit among a list of South African Units receiving the War and Victory medals. A total of 94 personnel. Looked through my copy of Tylden, but dont see mention of this unit. Can anyone give more information on this WWI unit.

Regards
Steven
Steven I have a Death plaque to a Stokes Mortar battery chap KIA in GEA. Also have a medal group to them. Tydens has let me down a number of times, definitely not a comprehensive record, great but like all publications not perfect.

It could very well be a shoulder title to them, if so a nice item.

Brian
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Old 04-09-21, 04:49 AM
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Hi Brian,
Thanks for the feedback.

Regards
Steven
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  #13  
Old 19-09-21, 07:43 AM
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That pip was the first pattern castle introduced in the late 1950s worn by generals from c. 1956 IIRC when they decided to make Commandant General a rank rather than an appointment. The more familiar version castle came out c.1958.
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  #14  
Old 20-09-21, 10:50 AM
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From Commando mag
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