British & Irish Lions v The Shackle Draggers

[seebee1]

An exciting match to watch, North's try was correctly disallowed. Beale did slip, such a shame for the Wallabies as he could well have won the match and redeemed himself for his previously missed penalty. The Lions only won due to Australia not wearing their kicking boots, may well be a different story next Saturday!

As a long-time supporter of Northampton Saints, it was great to see George North and Alex Corbisiero playing so well, they are joining the Saints this coming season.

[GriffMJ]

After watching the match I was glad to see that we were not out played... it could have been a different story if the Oz were on kicking form though!!

The North and Cuthbert tries were top drawer...... the Cuthbert try from set piece was really good..... great move. North was just at his "Scarlets" best (remember that when you support him at the Saints - he will be a "Scarlet" again).

[Robthereiver]

Originally Posted by 1stTankie

Hi Griff

I apologise for missing the point you are trying so hard to make but I have really believed these past few years that these pages are really all about The British and Commonwealth Military Badge Forum.
I suspect relatively few members of the forum will even recognise the names you are posting and most of those will care even less.
We can all be proud of our heritage but taken to extreme it could be deemed almost offensive. Please show me a clear and uncluttered connection between what this forum is all about and the possibility that the British Lions will have a few Welsh players in the team and I will be the first to apologise for doubting your loss of focus.
Have you even considered that the Lions will get a hammering? Where do you think we will lay the blame if that happens?

I remain your friend,

Best wishes

Gordon

Hi Gordon

I agree with you whole heartedly.
I am a fan of the sport, and IMO this is not really the place for its discussion.

Neither is this the place IMO for national flag waving or nation bashing, as I'm sure most, if not all members are proud patriots of their respective nations, and this should be respected, as failure to do so could offend.

As you say Gordon this is a Badge forum......so lets maintain courtesy and cordiality, and keep to the subject.

Regards
Rob

[GriffMJ]

I am looking forward to the U20s RWC final now....

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by Robthereiver

Hi Gordon

I agree with you whole heartedly.
I am a fan of the sport, and IMO this is not really the place for its discussion.

Neither is this the place IMO for national flag waving or nation bashing, as I'm sure most, if not all members are proud patriots of their respective nations, and this should be respected, as failure to do so could offend.

As you say Gordon this is a Badge forum......so lets maintain courtesy and cordiality, and keep to the subject.

Regards
Rob

Dear Both

The Off Topic area was created to de-clutter the badge sub-forums of such material! it's plain daft to go into an "off topic" area of the forum and complain about the contents not being badge topics! "some of these blokes need a life ffs"

......anyway....

Great to see that Dan "Chopper" Lydiate has got the Captaincy for the Rebels fixture..... Gareth Delve (a former Welsh No.8) is Captain for the Rebels I think?

Roll on the second test.... lets hope that the Lions can wrap up the series then and save the third test for some "old fashioned justice" on Horwill

[Mike]

yeah, what he said. It's 'off topic' so badge subjects won't appear in here.
And I do hope it can remain light-hearted, I can see the intention is not to injure national pride, but it can be difficult with the written word in this environment. That's why some bright spark invented smileys.

[GriffMJ]

Thank God for the smiley...... Alun-Wynn almost had a permanent smiley from the back of Horwill's boot Judicial officer Nigel Hampton QC really does need his eyes testing.

[elgee45]

Phew, one point in it. Not a great game, many mistakes from both teams, even though the pitch was dry and in good shape. Next week's game in Sydney should be a cracker . . . I hope.

[seebee1]

Really enjoyed this second test, but not as much as my Australian son-in-law! Looking forward to the final at Sydney next Saturday, would not like to bet on the outcome.

[GriffMJ]

Y Gats should have changed Vynapolu for Grant in the first 30..... and Hibbard for Youngs. Ozzy had a good spell in the 60 mins that kept on going until the try..... Y Gats was at fault on selection..... he got it wrong.

Warbs & Lydiate were immense...... I think Falatau would have made a difference...... he should have been on the bench!

The third test should be a humdinger!!

[Robthereiver]

Originally Posted by Mike

yeah, what he said. It's 'off topic' so badge subjects won't appear in here.
And I do hope it can remain light-hearted, I can see the intention is not to injure national pride, but it can be difficult with the written word in this environment. That's why some bright spark invented smileys.

Hi Mike

Yeah, whatever? Its 'off topic'? right ho . It seems we(1st Tankie and I) have misinterpreted 'off topic'? or is it 'off off topic'
Cutting to the chase, and putting matters in perspective, if I were to go on to say a Rugby forum and start discussing, military badges in their 'off topic' section, I might attract criticism, I'd suggest it would be blunt.
However, such sporting forums are possibly more robust when it comes to members making derogatory nationalistic comments eg. 'the Shackle draggers'!
Horses for courses you might say.
Surely, that is why we join various forums to enjoy what they all have to offer, and as individuals we also have the ability to discuss on line, using various media, one to one or in conference, any subject under the sun.
So why on earth go so far 'off topic' on this forum? what next National Hunt Racing, I'm up for it....lol! embroidery and knitting circles, toddler groups, OMG!?

Rob

[Robthereiver]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Dear Both

The Off Topic area was created to de-clutter the badge sub-forums of such material! it's plain daft to go into an "off topic" area of the forum and complain about the contents not being badge topics! "some of these blokes need a life ffs"

......anyway....

Great to see that Dan "Chopper" Lydiate has got the Captaincy for the Rebels fixture..... Gareth Delve (a former Welsh No.8) is Captain for the Rebels I think?

Roll on the second test.... lets hope that the Lions can wrap up the series then and save the third test for some "old fashioned justice" on Horwill

Griff

With respect, that would be mostly your clutter then mate, as your don't just make passing comments on sport, your appear to write essays.

Just an observation.

Rob

[wardog]

Admin. Please move to the Off Topic- off topic thread.
In this 'Off Topic' section most posts tend to have a military link, but not all and there is no reason I can think off why all posts should have a military connection. Being probably a largely male membership with many military or ex military members, I don't think it odd that sport is brought up as a subject and there seem to be a number of members ready to post on the tread.
The Great War Forum also has a section for off topic threads and not everything on there has a link to the Great War. You would not go into a pub and expect to have to talk about beer all night!
Anyway-where is that knitting pattern I wanted to post...

[Rockape]

We are a collective of members who subscribe to the BCMBF. As such some are interested in the military aspect of our hobby. So when an off-topic conversation begins with sport you might be asking yourself...

Q. What has sport got to do with the military?

A. In the late 19th century, recruitment was low and morale was lower still. Men could not be retained and the military career was not attractive. In 1880, Rugby, Football and Boxing, Hockey and Cricket were introduced as part of normal military training and in doing so raised the conditions and standards of those serving (Mason & Riedi, 2010). Sport was introduced in India about 1890 as a means of shaping and conditioning men into the British style of efficiency and manliness. The introduction of sport raised morale and contributed to a fitter, well-trained and professional army, and by the outbreak of WW1, the BEF were held in very high regard by the Kaiser's generals because of their high fitness and marksmanship skills (Campbell, 2000).

Sport had divisions and some sports were seen as officer sports such as Equestrian and Rugby. Officers at the turn of the 20th century generally came from wealthy backgrounds and often horse riding was at the heart of their pursuits. Polo was played by officers and was seen as a tool to enhance leadership and tactics.

Since the end of the great war, sport has played a major role in integrating all-ranks and brought unit cohesion, loyalty and a sense of identity. Training for war is highly repetitive and sometimes tedious. Sport was used as a distraction and was so important that the Army Sports Control Board was introduced in 1918 (Mason & Riedi, 2010). The RAF and Navy followed suit with their own organisations shortly thereafter.

Playing sports with civilians raised standards and helped to improve interaction between the the military and civilians which served to strengthen military sport.

Let's be specific about Rugby as that is the source of debate for this thread. According to Tony Collins (2002) (pdf attached) Rugby Union (RU) football was viewed both by its supporters and general observers alike as the most enthusiastic and committed sporting supporter of the war effort in 1914. Throughout the war despite mounting casualties, RU flourished. A nice excerpt from the Collins paper reads "in 1918, the London Society of Referees refused to officiate in matches involving the Welsh Guards because of their 'foul play' and the regiment immediately disbanded the team".

Let's return to the original question. Sport and therefore Rugby/Football/Cricket etc. is a part of the way of life from the moment you join until you leave. Sport in the military is warfare without the bullets. I would propose that the link between military badge collecting and sport in the military is intertwined in our very fabric, and therefore is hard to escape for many of us.

References:

Campbell, J. D., 2000, ‘Training for sport is training for war’: sport and the transformation of the British army, 1860–1914, The International Journal of the History of Sport, 17 (4), pp. 21-58.

Collins, T. (2003) English Rugby Union and the First World War. The Historical Journal, 45 January, pp.797-817.

Mason, T., Riedi, E., 2010, Sport and the Military: The British Armed Forces 1880-1960, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press <online> http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=e...sports&f=false

[elgee45]

Easy . . . one is not forced to read anything that does not interest one, irks one, or that one finds just plain boring. I usually skip any posts to do with buttons, rather than complaining that buttons ain't badges.