Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

wardog · #1 15-05-16, 04:18 PM

Cat face looks out from the badge, tail looks to go under cat then up and across the front/belly. One lug shows feet. No voids/solid badge. Is it thought tail up and tail down were both in use before 1910? Does the cat looking out mean anything? Does the lug with feet point to badge being duff? As usual- all opinion welcome. Regards, Paul.
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kingsley · #2 16-05-16, 02:13 AM

Sorry can't help with any info, but maybe someone can tell me about yet another variation: a perfectly flat A & S badge, non void. Was it Victorian era? Sorry no scan.

Advsmt · #3 17-05-16, 09:31 AM

First I have to say I am no expert. I have been told that Scottish badges did have lugged feet, however,by the 1970s fakers had got hold of these lugs and started to use them. So not a definitive sign one way or the other. It looks like one of the lugs has been replaced at some point. As to the tail, again there has been a lot of talk about that, I don't think that is a definitive dating sign. As to voided badges there is no doubt that non-voided badges are only on "earlier badges". K&K have both the voided and non-voided under the chapter Slouch-hat and glengarry 1898 to 1921. Under the cloth helmet 1881 - 1914 they have one badge a non-voided cat not looking out used on white helmet and Highland head-dress. Would it be curved and have longer lugs if it was a helmet badge? The National Army museum have a non-voided cat looking out and they have dated it c.1914. I don't have vol2 of K&K but looking at Bloomer the only standard (not a VB) solid badge he has is a bonnet version. Bloomer describes his voided badges as domed or raised centre and dates them 1900 to 59. His cats come in all shapes and sizes and tails all over the place! Does a bonnet badge have longer lugs? And is it flatter? Don't know but others may know. I will keep looking.

Bryan

manchesters · #4 17-05-16, 09:44 AM

Paul,

I admit to knowing nothing about, cats, tails and direction of looking, BUT, it looks a nice and original badge to me from your photos.

regards

Advsmt · #5 17-05-16, 09:54 AM

One other point I would make is that your badge is pristine. I would look on eBay at a certain banned members "early" example. Look at the length of lugs and the finish on the front of the badge. Google a badge at Dornoch museum, can't see the back but again look at the finish of this badge.

Bryan

wardog · #6 17-05-16, 02:47 PM

Thanks for the replies gents. I've noticed a fault to the rear of SU from my pictures.
It could have had a lug replace- though both the colour and shape of the lugs match, as does solder colour. Perhaps the other lug also has feet but they are covered by solder. Badge is sturdy and has weight to it.
Regards, Paul.

Advsmt · #7 17-05-16, 03:47 PM

Like Simon I think this is a good badge. Being non-voided dealers would describe it as Victorian/Edwardian or an "early" badge. Beyond that I think it is speculation.

Bryan

wardog · #8 18-05-16, 04:01 PM

Yes- I think its good. Surprised though that this has not caught the attention of anyone collecting to the A&SH. I'm not able to find a similar example on the forum or online- usually the front facing cat looks to have the raised tail on an un voided badge. Regards, Paul.

Alan O · #9 18-05-16, 06:30 PM

Please stop speculating as here is the answer:

Sealed as w/m badge on 1883/02/16 for Feather Bonnet, FS White Helmet & Glengarry Cap: Boar's head and Cat in title circlet within a Thistle wreath, centre unpierced

Re-sealed on 1892/02/10 for Field Service Cap [Glengarry], Bonnet & FSH c/w pin, Centre still unpierced

Re-sealed 1904/05/03 for Bonnet, FSH, & Glengarry. To Officers' Pattern (Cat's Tail). Possibly Cat's tail placed under its body instead of raised behind it

Re-sealed on 1910/06/11 for Bonnet, pierced in place of being solid - Possibly Cat's tail left raised in error.

Re-sealed 1913/12/20 for Bonnet replacing 1910 version Amended version possibly Cat's tail placed under its body

Advsmt · #10 18-05-16, 06:57 PM

OK Alan so solid until 1910 then voided after that. You use the word "possibly" when it comes to the cats tail. Does that mean it is not specified as to where to position the tail? In other words it is up to the supplier of the badge?

Bryan

Alan O · #11 18-05-16, 07:22 PM

The s/p does not explain where the tail is. You know that the final (1913 onwards) pattern is down and the first ones are up. If you were to find a hallmarked officers badge c 1905 and a c1912 one then that would clinch it.

The direction of the face is almost certainly a makers variation.