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  #1  
Old 03-02-19, 11:03 AM
phaethon phaethon is offline
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Default What Irish button is this?

Hi all,

Just would like to find out which regiment button is this? I think Connaught or Royal Irish Regiment.

It is very small button.




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I am always looking early (pre 1939) British ribbon bars with foreign awards; interesting devices or just different construction solutions. Also I am seeking Royal Dublin Fusiliers items. I can help in small scale to research RDF soldiers (MICs, medal rolls, additional information, etc).
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  #2  
Old 03-02-19, 09:22 PM
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Toby Purcell Toby Purcell is offline
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I think that the button’s design is more closely associated with the Connaught Rangers than the Royal Irish Regiment. The open, concave back suggests an Officers’ Mess Livery button, or blazer button, but the Victorian crown and seemingly larger size implies the former, as Blazers were not popular in the Army before the old Queen’s death.

The Connaught Rangers had a number of button designs after their formation from the 88th and 94th Regiments in 1881:

1. Tunic 1881-1894 a button incorporating the Harp of Erin of the 88th and Indian Elephant of the 94th, surrounded by a wreath of shamrocks.

2. Tunic 1881-1922 a button incorporating QVC, a change to the Maids Harp with motto Quis Separabit, and the wreath of shamrocks.

3. Officer’s Mess Vest (waistcoat) a small, lined button with the letters CR in Gothic script.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 03-02-19 at 10:52 PM.
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  #3  
Old 03-02-19, 09:31 PM
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Toby Purcell Toby Purcell is offline
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There was a period during the 1890s through to the turn of the Century and a short period up to WW1 when Officers’ Mess servants (waiters and batmen) were required to wear tailcoats for the weekly ‘guest nights’ when social equals were invited to dine in the Mess. These tailcoats had special, Regimental buttons selected by regimental committees and unregulated at army level. They have become a specialist area for collectors and are extremely rare. Often in silver plate, they invariably have open backs and fixed loops. The last regiment to require these servants tailcoats (generally double breasted with two rows of buttons, plus cuffs) to be used was the RA Mess at Woolwich and I enclose a photo with a servant in that mess in the foreground at the once famous annual RA dinner in the 1950s, before officer’s Mess Dress was again authorised.
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Last edited by Toby Purcell; 04-02-19 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 03-02-19, 09:38 PM
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GriffMJ GriffMJ is offline
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Check the wigs out!?...... Thats a Mess with style
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  #5  
Old 04-02-19, 12:18 AM
4966Ian 4966Ian is offline
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Yes. . as Toby suggests, this is a small Officers' Mess Waiter's Button to the Connaught Rangers.

The button shown by Toby in his second post (QVC atop Harp surrounded by a large wreath of Shamrocks) is a Mess Waiter's Button to The Royal Irish Regiment.
Though this button went against the norm for Mess Waiter Buttons by being a 'closed' back design rather than the more normal open back (livery style) button.

Generally for the Mess Waiter buttons, the small buttons are circa 16-17mm, whilst the large buttons are circa 25-27mm.

I collect Officers Mess Waiter's buttons, so if anyone has any they want to sell, please let me know.

All the best

Ian
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  #6  
Old 04-02-19, 10:11 AM
phaethon phaethon is offline
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thanks guys for your inputs! I learned again something.

And this button above will be posted out to Ian shortly
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I am always looking early (pre 1939) British ribbon bars with foreign awards; interesting devices or just different construction solutions. Also I am seeking Royal Dublin Fusiliers items. I can help in small scale to research RDF soldiers (MICs, medal rolls, additional information, etc).
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  #7  
Old 04-02-19, 11:00 AM
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Toby Purcell Toby Purcell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GriffMJ View Post
Check the wigs out!?...... Thats a Mess with style
Yes there were two outfits worn by servants at the annual dinner, one was of Regency style, including wigs, knee breeches, stockings and buckled shoes, which had first been worn in the period after Waterloo, and the second was the Victorian tailcoat, etc. already described (and that is regularly seen in the TV series, ‘Downton Abbey’). The latter was often worn with a thinly striped waistcoat beneath.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 04-02-19 at 11:07 AM.
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  #8  
Old 04-02-19, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4966Ian View Post
Yes. . as Toby suggests, this is a small Officers' Mess Waiter's Button to the Connaught Rangers.

The button shown by Toby in his second post (QVC atop Harp surrounded by a large wreath of Shamrocks) is a Mess Waiter's Button to The Royal Irish Regiment.
Though this button went against the norm for Mess Waiter Buttons by being a 'closed' back design rather than the more normal open back (livery style) button.

Generally for the Mess Waiter buttons, the small buttons are circa 16-17mm, whilst the large buttons are circa 25-27mm.

I collect Officers Mess Waiter's buttons, so if anyone has any they want to sell, please let me know.

All the best

Ian
Thanks for posting Ian. Do you have a gallery in the forum? It would be great for forum members to be able to see the full range of designs. I was very interested to learn how similar the Royal Irish Regiment livery button device is to that of the Connaught Rangers. It shows once again how freely the Irish regiments moved between the two styles of harp on their insignia over a Century.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 04-02-19 at 11:11 AM.
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