Availability for sale of current issue British Army badges

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

As an example of what I am questioning is the wide availability (at fairly high prices) of the recently issued Royal Lancers badges.

Tim

The ORs beret badge has been made by TKS and Firmins. The TKS versions had copper lugs to the rear of the Motto part of the badge. The Firmin version was silvered.

The remainder of cap,beret ,collars badges and titles have mainly come from one source.
We have to remember that when the Regt was inaugurated there was only a handful of cap badges in the Regiments possession. It took some time for the Regt to be fully badged up. The MOD pay a fairly high price for each badge.

[Frank Kelley]

I would think, regarding availability, certainly a degree of misappropriation, although, I suppose it would depend upon any other sales actually made buy the manufacturer in question.

[altcar73]

Originally Posted by bess55

I know where they come from, as does anyone who has ever been to places like Field Textiles. The question, I guess which was originally posted, is how they get released for disposal from the MoD, when they are currently issued and worn insignia.

You can ask a similar question as to why all the new un-issued current headgear (plus other clothing) which you see being sold as surplus, is being disposed of when there is no obvious reason why it can't be issued.

Dave.

[Frank Kelley]

It would depend upon who the manufacturers are actually making their wares for, in the case of badges and clothing, I would assume that the MOD is not the sole customer.

Originally Posted by altcar73

You can ask a similar question as to why all the new un-issued current headgear (plus other clothing) which you see being sold as surplus, is being disposed of when there is no obvious reason why it can't be issued.

Dave.

[Paul Spellman]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

It would depend upon who the manufacturers are actually making their wares for, in the case of badges and clothing, I would assume that the MOD is not the sole customer.

They do have Trade catalogues. Other than Military Tailors I’d imagine they would accept bulk orders from registered businesses. Many of whom claim to be MoD approved.
Paul

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

They do have Trade catalogues. Other than Military Tailors I’d imagine they would accept bulk orders from registered businesses. Many of whom claim to be MoD approved.
Paul

Yes, but why the two different types of packaging? If that was so the packaging with the short NSN and same pattern No. would not be required.

Regards,

Chris

[grey_green_acorn]

This is my summary based on the information in this thread and additional material received from PMs, email and conversations with collectors and dealers. This is a complex subject, with obvious commercial, contractual and other interests. I am looking here only at badges but it is apparent that other current issue new and packaged material like clothing and equipment is also readily available.

There would seem to be a number of main sources for current issue British Army badges in sealed packaging being available on the market.

1. The United Kingdom Ministry of Defence (MOD) as the primary ‘client’ orders and purchases items for issue and has a disposals organisation. I have been unable to penetrate the disposals system but it would seem that direct bulk sales, with some possibly by auction, are made to a limited number of ‘authorised contractors’ who apparently hold an ‘MOD licence’.

2. These current issue badges are possibly ‘over stocks’ that the MOD is disposing of even though they are current issue. There is also a slight possibility that some current issue badges may have been rejected by the MOD on quality grounds.

3. Authorised MOD disposal contractors sell badges on to dealers and to individuals through mail order lists and catalogues, on-line and at Militaria Fairs. The packaging may have been removed before the badges are sold on.

4. The main badge manufacturers are apparently permitted to sell to dealers and individuals in quantity their newly produced badges in fully marked (NSN, description and Pattern Number etc.) packaging exactly the same as badges sold under contract to the MOD. A small royalty should be paid to the MOD for each of these type of sales.

5. There is limited evidence that a few badges have appeared recently on the collectors market in manufacturers packaging but without the correct NSN or Pattern Number. Some of these badges have the <>MAKER<>slider marking which apparently indicates that they are made in China.

6. Unit, President of the Regimental Institute (PRI) and some military Museum shops sometimes sell current issue badges.

7. ‘Misappropriation’ of a hopefully small quantity of badges inevitably occurs both at unit level and from ‘shrinkage’ within the supply chain. It is difficult if not impossible to really know the true source of a badge when it is purchased.

Finally as a collector I am of course pleased that current issue badges are actually available. As a UK tax payer I hope that the MOD are not wasting our money!

Tim

[hagwalther]

Hi Tim,

That is a pretty comprehensive post and one that answers many questions!

Have you been able to find out or deduce why the different packaging in:

5. There is limited evidence that a few badges have appeared recently on the collectors market in manufacturers packaging but without the correct NSN or Pattern Number. Some of these badges have the <>MAKER<>slider marking which apparently indicates that they are made in China.

I note your remark that some were '...made in China...' but any idea why the different NSN and pattern No. for such packaging?

Regards,

Chris

[grey_green_acorn]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

Hi Tim,

That is a pretty comprehensive post and one that answers many questions!

Have you been able to find out or deduce why the different packaging in:

5. There is limited evidence that a few badges have appeared recently on the collectors market in manufacturers packaging but without the correct NSN or Pattern Number. Some of these badges have the <>MAKER<>slider marking which apparently indicates that they are made in China.

I note your remark that some were '...made in China...' but any idea why the different NSN and pattern No. for such packaging?

Regards,

Chris

Chris,
From the half a dozen examples I have seen they show a mix of numbers which are mainly neither partial NSNs nor Pattern Numbers. More investigation needed, particularly if it is possible to buy fully and correctly marked packaged badges from the main manufacturers why do these randomly numbered packages exist? Perhaps Emma Daly knows!!!

Tim