5th RM (independent) armoured support battery

[half12]

Hello,

I am just starting studying ww2 Royal Marine organisation and history ....

On D day morning the 5th RM (independent) armoured support battery has landed on Sword - Queen red.

What was the arm badges worn by this unit ? and certainly by the other batteries of the RM Armoured Support Group ...

First, a title "Royal Marine", I suppose ... cash tape or embroidered ?
but what else ?? Combined Operations ???

Best regards . Herve

[Mike Jackson]

If you take a look at the article that Robert and I wrote for Militaria on the Royal Marines (excluding Commandos) on D Day, you will see all we could find out about the RMASG. As far as I recall we couldn't find any 1944 images of the unit with Marines and Soldiers wearing any formation sign. In the best known image the crew of the Centaur are all wearing some form of waterproof jacket (or gas cape) so BD blouses were covered - it must have been raining in Normandy. The sign of the Amphibian Support Regiment, RM came much later in the War. Mike

[half12]

Hello Mike,

Thanks, I will look at your article as far as possible ... do you remember Militaria's number ?

For Dday, as tank crews didn't they wore tank suits ?

I should be surprised if they did not have any titles and formation signs on their BD's ?
They must also have had the blue/red beret ...

Best regards.. Herve

[Mike Jackson]

Here's the well-known image. Some if not all the Centaur Drivers were not RM but RA. Not surprisingly the Royal Marines didn't train many people to drive tracked vehicles in WW2. The Gunners did - for SP Guns of various models.
There is an image showing members of RMASG parked up along a country road in southern England prior to move to the Assembly Areas before D Day. As I recall the crew are wearing either tank denims or BD.
Centaur RMASG.01.jpgRMASG.jpg

[Mike B]

Very interesting thread - It would be good to know the Militaria Magazine issue Nos for your article Mike.

Herve - no doubt you have: James Ladd, 'By Sea By Land' - it has a lengthy Appendix 4 (page 471 to 550) covering Royal Marine Unit History summaries. 'Summaries' is the right word, but the variety of units is amazing ... A useful source for further research. Content of these summaries extends beyond the WW2 timeframe. I just opened a page of this Appendix and came to 'Home Base Ledger Office' (a paragraph on page 549) - it gives you an idea of some of the obscure units covered. It may be a good starting point to define the scope of your research.

All the best

Mike

[Mike B]

Attached are relevant pages from James Ladd

In response to your specific question regarding 'Combined Operations' insignia ... the third attachment may assist, it is taken from National Archive document CAB 106/3 Pt 1 regarding Combine Operations Command.

I am not sure if these were 'related to', or an 'integral part' of Combined Operations Command.

Mike

[half12]

Hello Mike,

Thanks for your scans. I have in mind the main lines of the organisation...

You're right, do they were "attached to" ? If yes , they must have worn the Comb Ops patch ...
If no ... ??

Best regards .. Herve

[Mike B]

It appears RM Armour worked in support of SS/Cdo Bdes but I could not find reference to them in extracts of the Combined Operations Directory I extracted notes from (original was in RM Museum Southsea a couple of decades ago and I think was March 1943). It may be the directory predated formation of these units though.

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by half12

Hello Mike,

Thanks, I will look at your article as far as possible ... do you remember Militaria's number ?

For Dday, as tank crews didn't they wore tank suits ?

I should be surprised if they did not have any titles and formation signs on their BD's ?
They must also have had the blue/red beret ...

Best regards.. Herve

Herve,
If you could PM me with your email address I can now send you a soft copy of the Militaria article on the RM on D Day. I think it was published in 2004.
Mike

[half12]

Hi Mike,

PM sent ..

Best regards .. Herve

[Mike Jackson]

For general information on the subject of the RMASG, below are some notes I made at the time of researching the article. Due to limitations of space not much of this could be included in the article published in Militaria magazine. Mike

2 ROYAL MARINE ARMOURED SUPPORT GROUP
In the months leading up to D Day it was appreciated that there could never be enough close fire support available to cover the initial landings. Although large numbers of Royal Marines were serving on Royal Navy warships and on specialist vessels such as Landing Craft, Gun (LCG), further Royal Marines were to become involved in the provision of a unique form of fire support.
The necessary enhancements to capability were provided by the imaginative linking of unarmed Landing Craft, Tank (LCT) to a surplus of the unreliable and virtually unusable Centaur tank. Of the 950 Centaurs produced, the last 90 or so from the production line were the Mark IV, armed with the 95mm howitzer as a close support tank. It was suggested that if these Centaurs were parked on the tank deck of an LCT, the vessel would become an improvised LCG known officially as the Landing Craft Tank (Adapted) (LCT (A)). The idea was approved, the 95mm Howitzer Centaurs were handed over to the Royal Marines and training began. It was quickly appreciated that since the tanks were never going to be driven on land, the very unreliable engines were redundant. So they were removed and the engine space used for additional ammunition stowage. Other modifications were made. The bow machine gun, which could not be fired from a landing craft, was removed and plated over, thus freeing the bow-gunner’s position for ammunition stowage. Mudguards were removed; they served no purpose, and took up valuable space on the crowded landing craft. As the vehicles were to be used more like artillery than tanks, their turrets were marked with degrees like a protractor, to enable observers to direct the gunfire.
Training went well, the Royal Marines adapting naval gunnery techniques for their new vessels. However, having witnessed a demonstration of the improvised LCG in the spring of 1944, a very senior officer observed that it was illogical to take tanks all the way to the invasion beaches if they could not actually land and join the fighting as it moved inland. So the order was given to replace the engines. Strict orders were given that although the tanks would go ashore, their use was forbidden more than a mile inland. These orders were not adhered to! The tanks were water-proofed and provided with deep-wading trunks.
It was then noted that whilst the Royal Marines were adept at gunnery, they could not drive tanks. As a result Royal Armoured Corps tank drivers were posted to the unit, which was by now entitled 2 Royal Marine Armoured Support Group. The Group comprised two units; 1 and 2 Royal Marine Armoured Support Regiments.
A number of Sherman tanks were added to the establishment to act as command vehicles and a type of armoured sled, named porpoise, was devised that could be towed behind the Centaurs to carry additional ammunition.
And so, on 6 June 1944, the Royal Marines of 1 RMAS Regt went to war in tanks for the first time in their history. Inevitably not all the tanks made it ashore, but those that did made a significant, albeit brief contribution to the initial landings and the lodgement into the beachheads.
One major success on D Day was the employment of two Centaurs to support an attack by 46 (RM) Commando on a German strongpoint at Petit Enfer.

1 RMAS Regt was still in action on 11 June 1944 when a troop of Centaurs fired an intensive fire plan in support of a 46 (RM) Commando attack on Le Hamel and Rots.
By early July 1944, 1 RMAS Regt had achieved its mission. The men were returned to the United Kingdom for redeployment and the Centaur tanks, surplus to Royal Armoured Corps requirements, were handed over to the French Army. It is alleged that the French crews, having been trained on Shermans and, in some cases Somua, Renault and other tanks were unimpressed by the strange and unreliable Centaurs and they were never used in the French Army.
As far as is known, no specific insignia was worn by the members of the RMAS Gp. However the tanks bore a unique tactical sign – a blue square with narrow yellow, green and red horizontal stripes and the unit numeral, 1 or 2, in white superimposed.
The story of Royal Marine armour does not end there. Building on the lessons learned by 1 RMAS Regt on D Day and immediately after, it was accepted that the Royal Marines needed their own dedicated fire support. Equipped with a variety of weapons mounted on the Landing Vehicle Tracked (the Buffalo) 34 Amphibian Support Regiment, Royal Marines was formed in early 1945 and moved to India later that year. The war in the Far East ended before it could be employed, but some elements of the unit fought as infantry in Java in 1946.
[804 words]
Additional material – 27 May 04
The RMASG was inaugurated on 9 March 1944. It was to be commanded by a soldier, Brig DCW Sanders (a former Commander Royal Artillery (CRA)) with Lt Col AJ Harvey RM as Deputy Commander.
There were to be two regiments, each of two batteries of 16 Centaur tanks and an Indep Bty, also with 16 Centaur a total force of 80 gun tanks. The Troop strength was 1 x Sherman (Tp Comd’s tank) and 4 x Centaur. There were four Troops to a Battery.
Task organisation for D-Day was:
1 RMAS Regt: In support 50 (N) Div (Gold Beach)
2 RMAS Regt: In support 3 Can Div (Juno Beach)
5 Indep RMAS Bty: In support 3 (British) Div (Sword Beach)
1 RMAS Regt was commanded on D-Day by Lt Col Victor Peskett RM.

Elements of the RMASG were detailed to take part in a large-scale exercise on the Dorset coast at which spectators on the cliffs included HM the King and Gen Montgomery. The LCT (A)’s laden with their engineless Centaurs, approached the beach and the gun detachments went through the drill of providing supporting fire as the infantry landed. Gen Montgomery then demanded to know why the tanks had not advanced up the beach and was horrified, and not a little angered, to be told that they were engineless. He ordered that the engines be traced and reinstalled without delay. The RMASG now had only weeks to recruit and train some 200 tank drivers and co-drivers. The time for training for this unusual military force was limited and getting shorter by the day. The use of Marlborough Downs was hurriedly negotiated for driving practice. The three officers who had s designed the PIM Plotting Board (a crude form of artillery computation equipment) evolved the idea of painting the 360 degrees around the exterior of the tank turrets. This ensured that a zero line could be passed by the Tp Comd to his four 95mm Howitzer equipped Centaurs by the gun layer in each tank applying a given bearing by a modified dial sight trained on the pivot (or master) gun.
On D-Day sea conditions were appalling and only a proportion of the RMASG was able to beach at the planed time and place. CO 1 RMAS Regt, accompanied in a Jeep by his MOA (?Marine Officer’s Attendant – RM speak for batman), one of his Bty Comd’s as 2IC and a Signals Sgt with a 22 Set radio, reached Gold Beach at the same time as the Army SP guns. On driving down the ramp of the LC, the jeep overturned in the swell. All the kit was lost. The four man party was rescued by a passing LCA, it being discovered that the 2IC has lost two fingers as a result of a beach obstacle having exploded. The remaining three landed and made for the dunes. The CO then tried to find transport to get around the Divisional area. The first choice – a folding bicycle, was abandoned as being impractical. He then persuaded the captors to hand over a Ford V8 truck captured from the Germans and set off to track down his regiment. One of his Tp Comd’s found the CO on the evening of D + 1 to report that he had been landed on an unfamiliar beach and had made for Bayeux (which he remembered had been Gen Montgomery’s D-Day objective. Although Bayeux was still occupied by the Germans they spend the night there, inside their tank with the hatches closed and left in the morning before the Germans noticed.
Lt Col Peskett went on to command a RM Beach Group forming at Llwyngwril, Wales on 1 Mar 45 and then to command 34 RM Amphibious Support Regiment.
Note.
1. The PIM board – a form of Artillery Board – was named after the three RM officers who designed its – Majs Peskett, Ingleton and Mabbott
Extracted from
Artillery Odyssey by Lt Col Victor Peskett RM (Published in The Sheet Anchor – the journal of the RM Historical Society Vol XXVIII No 1 Summer 2003.