Bodill Request

[Jelly Terror]

Hail Forum,

Does anyone have, or ever seen, any military badge/insignia, stamped with the words ‘Bodill Parker’?

I’m not looking for the mark ‘BP & Co LD B’HAM’ etc., thought currently to be the Bodill Parker mark, or ‘B & P’ thought to be ‘Bent & Parker’; but the actual words ‘Bodill Parker’.

I’m aware the name is seen in full on metal, military-related items (button sticks being one such) but it is specifically badges/insignia with the words ‘Bodill Parker’ that I am looking for. I’d be grateful for any assistance.

With thanks,

JT.

[Luke H]

Imperator,

Alas can honestly say I’ve never seen or even heard of a such a Bodill & Parker mark with the name fully written out.

If you had such a marked badge I’d very much like to see it.

Have sent you a couple pics as requested.

[Paul Spellman]

As found on button stick cleaners
Paul

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Imperator,

Alas can honestly say I’ve never seen or even heard of a such a Bodill & Parker mark with the name fully written out.

If you had such a marked badge I’d very much like to see it.

Have sent you a couple pics as requested.

Luke,

Precisely.

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

As found on button stick cleaners
Paul

Paul,

Many thanks. Certainly no shortage (comparatively) with regard to the full wording when it comes to metal items which aren’t badges, buttons etc.

Thanks again.

JT

[KLR]

I have only one Bodmill & Parker badge but just the initials - on a Lpl Pals.
Bd of Trade allowance to make badges 1915, 1916and Jan - Aug 1917

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by KLR

I have only one Bodmill & Parker badge but just the initials - on a Lpl Pals.
Bd of Trade allowance to make badges 1915, 1916and Jan - Aug 1917

Thanks Julian.

Yes, I acknowledge the relevant entries in BoT.

I am hoping ‘Ticker’ may have extended his research into this company with regard to the ‘BP&Co’ maker mark, beyond the fascinating info he kindly shared with us some years ago.

As yet we cannot say for sure that ‘BP&Co’ is Bodill Parker’s mark. All we have to date is a likelihood based on a number of uncertain details, which point towards Bodill being a strong contender.

Before I create a misunderstanding I should state here that I neither want ‘BP&Co’ to be the Bodill Parker mark, nor want it not to be. I have no emotional interest in which it is. What I do want, however, is to know whether it is or not.

As ‘Ticker’ himself said:

‘…according to these [Board of Trade] lists “Bodill, Parker & Co. Ltd”, of “Albion Works, Great Hampton Row, Birmingham”, look to have been awarded contracts to produce metal badges for the War Office during the following months: December 1915; January, February, March, May, August & September 1916; and January & August 1917. Now whilst these contracts could well have been for military badges other than cap badges, given we do have items marked “BP & Co Ld B’ham”, I personally think this adds a little more weight to the idea that Bodill Parker did make cap badges and that they are the firm behind this particular makers mark.’

(Thread: ‘Beyer Peacock & Company’ - post #11)

——————————-

‘… these lists sadly do not give any details of the contracts themselves. I should also stress that the fact that these companies are listed under “Badges, Metal” does not necessarily mean they received contracts specifically for cap badges.’

(Thread: ‘The Board of Trade Labour Gazette: Lists of Contracts Awarded, 1914-1919’ - post #1)

——————————-

‘As I have already intimated, I am not making any claims about what these various companies made, but am merely offering this information up for what it is – a list of firms awarded contracts to supply the War Office with “Badges, Metal”, some of which may, or may not, have been cap badges.’

(Thread: ‘The Board of Trade Labour Gazette: Lists of Contracts Awarded, 1914-1919’ - post #9)

——————————-

Bodill Parker had been undertaking government contracts at least since the late-C19th; contracts with the Admiralty, the War Office and the India Office. Indeed, the attachment below tells us as much, and reveals the precise kinds of items the company was in the business of manufacturing:

E0A4A404-88EC-4324-A12A-B66881D51872.jpg

This, of course, does not mean Bodhill Parker could not have produced cap badges during the Great War period (or any other period), but nothing I have encountered to date in terms of the company’s advertisements, entries in trade or Post Office directories, trademark registers or other, gives any indication that they manufactured cap badges or other military insignia.

Contemporary (known) cap badge makers are all listed in directories etc., of the time, under headings which give clear indication of their trade and products. Companies such as Firmin, Dowler, Gaunt, Jennens etc., are listed over and again under headings such as:

Military and Naval Ornament Manufacturers
Belt Clasps and Fittings
Medalists
Badge Manufacturers

Whereas Bodill Parker feature under such headings as:

Hose Fittings Gardens
Door Furniture
Carpet and Drugget Pins
Cabinet Brassfounders
Bird Cages

The list goes on.

So if Bodill were not producing goods within a military spectrum, how (as we see from their advertisement) can they have had government/military contracts? My suggestion is that they did produce items required by those bodies; items such as, but not limited to: button sticks, kit bag handles, and many other such items invaluable to a wartime government.

Bodill appear to be the most likely owner of the ‘BP&Co’ mark. In the apparent absence of any other badge maker whose name fits those letters, it is difficult to offer another candidate. But should we, partially on this basis, assume it is definitely Bodill?

If ‘BP&Co’ is Bodill, great; we’ll have our answer. If ‘BP&Co’ is not Bodill, then also great; we have our answer. But currently, I don’t think there is enough evidence just yet to say with certainty it’s them. I’m hoping ‘Ticker’ might put the record straight either way, if his research continued beyond that which he already shared.

Regards,

JT

[Paul Spellman]

They were and are still Bodill Parker not Bodill & Parker so it would be BP not B&P
The company still exists having moved to Tipton BHam
Paul

[Luke H]

A very worthy question JT and it’s always good to challenge assumptions if they are indeed just that.

Perhaps some inference can be drawn from Lambourne’s here. So far as I can tell prior to WW1 they made various other metal items but not cap badges. Evidently this didn’t hold them back in WW1 despite their less than stellar craftsmanship in that respect. We obviously know they made badges as the Board of Trade Labour Gazette 1914-19 records this and sliders and/or plaques on cap badges marked with their full company name.

I expect their move into cap badge manufacturing was born from the great need that must’ve existed in 1914/15 in what was a national crisis. Similar to what we saw happen with PPE and the like over covid. A national need plus money to be made.

Second point perhaps is the diversity of marks that can be found across their range of wares from cuff links, sweethearts, HM silver, cap badges etc. and the lack of significant cross-over of marks in this respect. I vividly recall the robust debate around their name in WW1 (Lambourne’s or Lambourne & Co) and one member decrying all the ‘& Co’ marks as fake.

For me, I do believe Bodill Parker & Co is the best fit for BP&Co mark but I welcome the debate.

It’s very circumstantial but in addition to the above I’d add that Julian’s Liverpool Pals is of course the 1917 type so there is the possibility for that to marry up with contracts shown on the Board of Trade Labour Gazette and the most date-able badge I’m aware of with the mark.

Hopefully Ticker reads this as I understand he has done some further research into various Trade Directories, which I’m sure would be invaluable.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

They were and are still Bodill Parker not Bodill & Parker so it would be BP not B&P
The company still exists having moved to Tipton BHam
Paul

Quite so. ‘B&P’ seems widely to be acknowledged as Bent & Parker.

It’s the ‘BP&Co’ mark that I refer to in my posts.

JT

[Paul Spellman]

A short history
From - old copper.org

[Paul Spellman]

Sorry , got away with myself there, BP-B&P
As you may see from the short history they appear to be Bodill & Co before being legally incorporated in 1922 to Bodill Parker despite using BP earlier
Paul
I realise some dates are conflicting from graces guide and other sources but it may be worth getting in touch with the company to get any answers to questions on maker marks

[Jelly Terror]

Possibly a small step here towards linking Bodill with badges; from Peck’s Trades Directory of Birmingham, 1896-97, and the Post Office London Directory, 1914 [part 4, Trades & Professions] respectively:

E13FC4B9-77B3-4FFD-AA72-CB79EE021560.jpg 854D0849-1C89-485D-9CBD-2681B9829147.jpg

Nothing conclusive; being under ‘Checks, Labels and Badges’ doesn’t necessarily mean any manufacturer in that list produced each of these items. Not conclusive but, as said, possibly a step closer.

Also to add a further example of the Bodill Parker mark, albeit from their later incarnation as ‘Bodill Parker (1922) Ltd.’:

Bodill Parker.jpg

JT

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Luke H

A very worthy question JT and it’s always good to challenge assumptions if they are indeed just that.

Perhaps some inference can be drawn from Lambourne’s here. So far as I can tell prior to WW1 they made various other metal items but not cap badges. Evidently this didn’t hold them back in WW1 despite their less than stellar craftsmanship in that respect. We obviously know they made badges as the Board of Trade Labour Gazette 1914-19 records this and sliders and/or plaques on cap badges marked with their full company name.

I expect their move into cap badge manufacturing was born from the great need that must’ve existed in 1914/15 in what was a national crisis. Similar to what we saw happen with PPE and the like over covid. A national need plus money to be made.

Second point perhaps is the diversity of marks that can be found across their range of wares from cuff links, sweethearts, HM silver, cap badges etc. and the lack of significant cross-over of marks in this respect. I vividly recall the robust debate around their name in WW1 (Lambourne’s or Lambourne & Co) and one member decrying all the ‘& Co’ marks as fake.

For me, I do believe Bodill Parker & Co is the best fit for BP&Co mark but I welcome the debate.

It’s very circumstantial but in addition to the above I’d add that Julian’s Liverpool Pals is of course the 1917 type so there is the possibility for that to marry up with contracts shown on the Board of Trade Labour Gazette and the most date-able badge I’m aware of with the mark.

Hopefully Ticker reads this as I understand he has done some further research into various Trade Directories, which I’m sure would be invaluable.

Valid points, Luke, which must certainly be borne in mind.

I believe the earliest BoT listing ‘Ticker’ has for Lambourne is May, November & December 1915 (thread: ‘Monthly Lists of Contracts for “Badges, Metal”, 1914-1919, J-W’ – post #13).

We know from Bennett's Business Directory for Warwickshire, 1914, that Lambourne were by this time producing jewellery, and were listed under: ‘JEWELLERS – MANUFACTURING’. I am unable to ascertain when in 1914 this edition was compiled/published; it may have been before or after the outbreak of war. One for further investigation.

I have also found Lambourne, in Peck's Trades Directory of Birmingham, 1896-97, under the following:

BUTTONS - PEARL
PEARL AND TORTOISESHELL WORK
SCARF PINS AND SLIDES
SLEEVE LINKS, STUDS & SOLITAIRES.

This tells us that whilst they may not have been producing military items at this time, their wares were most certainly akin to badges, accoutrements and insignia, significantly more so than their contemporary, Bodill Parker, which indicates that the transition to the production of military badges would most certainly have been a minor one for Lambourne.

And let’s not overlook the 'LAMBOURNE & Co BIRMINGHAM' mark on the imperial service badge.

ISB Lambourne 2.jpgISB Lambourne 1.jpg
ISB 2c.jpgISB 2a.jpg

(Photograph above shows a Lambourne badge being worn).

We can date ISBs from 1910. This is not to say Lambourne badges appeared as early as this, though they may well have done.

Thanks to all so far; fascinating stuff.

JT

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

A short history
From - old copper.org

Paul,

Many thanks.

This from '1914 Who's Who in Business: Company B' (Grace's Guide to British Industrial History):

'BODILL, PARKER & CO., Ltd., Cabinet Furnishing and General Brass and Iron Founders, Ship Tackle and Eyelet Makers. Offices: 35 and 36, Great Hampton Row, Birmingham. Works: Albion Works, Great Hampton Row, and St. George's Mill, Tower Street, Birmingham. Hours of Business: 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. Established in 1863 as Joseph Bodill & Co. Title changed to William Bodill & Co., and, in 1882, to Bodill, Parker & Co., the partners then being William Bodill and William Bodill Parker; subsequently, William Bodill, William Bodill Parker, Joseph Richard Parker, and James Everett Parker. Incorporated as a Limited Company, June 1st, 1893, and the first Board of Directors was: Richard Parker (Chairman), Alderman John Parker, William Bodill Parker, Joseph Richard Parker, James Everett Parker. Present Directors: Joseph Richard Parker (Chairman), Martin Rogers Parker, a- d William James Read. Premises: In 1897 the works were extended, a slum court with thirteen cottages (a cul-de-sac) being cleared for the purpose, and in 1912 adjoining premises were acquitted, the development of the business necessitating further accommodation. Present works, warehouses, &c., cover a large area, with main entrance in Great Hampton Row, where the front block is occupied chiefly by stores and offices. At the rear is a stamping shop (95 ft. by 32 ft.), with two galleries for light machine work, having a total floor space of 4,022 sq. ft., and lighted from above. The galleries communicate with three large two-storey warehouses (once a terrace of houses), and a Machine Shop, 60 ft. by 56 ft., has been formed by covering in the old yard of the terrace. There are also Dipping, Annealing, and Casting Shops. Works are equipped throughout with modern appliances, capable of maintaining a large output. Stag: About 200 hands. Specialities: Furnishing and General Brass Work, Garden Hose Fittings, Metal Labels, Motor Car Fittings, Eyelets, Hooks and Eyes, and all Metal Fittings for Sails and Tents. Patents: Numerous, including " Bopark Specialities as follows:— Curtain Rod Bracket;, Curtain Holders, Kuct Holders, Sash Lift, Stair Eyes, Moulding Hooks, Swivel Wardrobe Hook, Self-lifting Portiere Rod, Motor Turn Buttons. Also Registered a-tfc'es [sic] (" B varks "):— Muslin Rod Brackets, Stair Eyes, Carpet Carver, Picture Hooks, Picture Suspenders, and Knife Sharpener. Connection: United Kingdom; also Foreign and Colonial through British Merchants. Contractors to H.M. Government, Admiralty, War Office, India Office, and to General Post Office, Commissioners of Prisons, &c. Telephone: No. 2260 Birmingham. Telegraphic Ad dress: " Bodills, Birmingham." Bankers: Lloyds Bank Limited (Great Hampton Street, Birmingham).'

BP2.jpg

Originally Posted by Paul Spellman

Sorry , got away with myself there, BP-B&P
As you may see from the short history they appear to be Bodill & Co before being legally incorporated in 1922 to Bodill Parker despite using BP earlier
Paul
I realise some dates are conflicting from graces guide and other sources but it may be worth getting in touch with the company to get any answers to questions on maker marks

Good point... I am in fact awaiting replies from Bodill, to whom I have written on several occasions.

Regards,

JT

[Jelly Terror]

We seem to have a bit more evidence in support of Bodill Parker producing (cap?) badges for war work... from the 1918 Directory of Manufacturers in Engineering and Allied Trades (courtesy of Grac'e Guide):

BP&Co.jpg

JT