Unkown Buffs Badge

[Alan O]

Can anyone identify this badge? Buffs dragon but an unknown motto?

Alan

[Luke H]

Are you certain its Buff's related Alan? Despite the tail being similar to the Buffs the dragon itself is more akin to a Monmouth or Brecknockshire badge dragon (wings, nose, posture etc), also he is grounded on a torse rather than ground like a Buffs badge.

Any luck with the translation my latin is pretty shoddy, velox means swiftly, vivitis - something to do with life and vigilante is what it is pretty much I imagine?

Luke

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Luke Halls

Are you certain its Buff's related Alan? Despite the tail being similar to the Buffs the dragon itself is more akin to a Monmouth or Brecknockshire badge dragon (wings, nose, posture etc), also he is grounded on a torse rather than ground like a Buffs badge.

Any luck with the translation my latin is pretty shoddy, velox means swiftly, vivitis - something to do with life and vigilante is what it is pretty much I imagine?

Luke

Agree with Luke here. I did have a pair of officers collars - no torse - but the exactly the same pose and posture - this was in Brecon in 58, and I believe they were Welsh Regiment. I also have a couple of Brecknockshire badges and the dragon is very similar to these. David

[ard-ri]

Very similar to the Buffs Pagri pictured in Gaylors 6th Edition page 195. The Gaylor badge has no scroll and the Dragon has no curl in the tail like some of the Breck badges seem to have.

Michael

[Alan O]

As the tail has no twist in I was not thinking that it was a Welsh badge.

Alan

[Sonofacqms]

From the fixture on the reverse, I would say it was a Buffs pagri badge if it is a brooch pin, I have the badge in Gaylors book which I believe is an NCO's and the dragon is similar, as for the latin, far more educated people than I am will perhaps shed light on things. Maybe an RSM's or officers?

[Alan O]

It has 2 vertical lugs and a split pin.

Alan

[Alan O]

The Buffs regimental motto was

Thus "Veteri Frondescit Honore" translated becomes "With its Ancient Honour it is Evergreen".

A bit different from the badge so I am none the wiser.

Alan

[41st]

The pattern of the dragon is not one as used by any of the Welsh units and not surprisingly the Welsh units tend to use Welsh language mottos, albeit very badly at times.
I would go back to the Buffs idea.
Kevin

[sadler32]

I resent you using the term 'albeit very badly at times' You need to be reminded that all Welsh Regimental badges have been worn with honour!

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Wyndham

I resent you using the term 'albeit very badly at times' You need to be reminded that all Welsh Regimental badges have been worn with honour!

41st is referring to the grammer of the Welsh used. Living in Aberystwyth for 3 years with people for whom Welsh is their mother tonge I can vouch for the fact that several Welsh regimental mottos which I showed them they viewed as being either bad Welsh or not making sense in the Welsh language as it is today (which is actually a truer form of Welch than it was 100 years ago when the language nearly died out)!

And of course the badges were, are and will continue to be worn with pride by goggs and taffs alike.

Luke

[41st]

Originally Posted by Wyndham

I resent you using the term 'albeit very badly at times' You need to be reminded that all Welsh Regimental badges have been worn with honour!

Resent as much as you like, but I strongly recommend that you read up on the use of the Welsh language in mottos used by Welsh units prior to making any further ill informed comments.
As Luke has already pointed out some of the earlier mottos were taken up by non native speakers and both the spelling and grammar used were incorrect.
There is a history of corrections to these mottos over the years, not least within the Welsh Regiment, formally known by their line number as the 41st Foot. There is a bit of a hint there as to where my interests lie.
Dros Urddas Cymru.

[Diehard]

Alan,

This might be leading you down a blind alley but I did notice the aberystwyth utc badge has a dragon similar to your picture. (Luke's post jogged my memory).

Will

[41st]

Originally Posted by Diehard

Alan,

This might be leading you down a blind alley but I did notice the aberystwyth utc badge has a dragon similar to your picture. (Luke's post jogged my memory).

Will

Will,
Well spotted, I'd forgotten about that variant of the Dragon. I've checked my Aberystwyth OTC and UTC and there is more than a passing similarity.
Whilst the wing pattern is different, as Luke has just finished at Aber perhaps he can advise as to whether the college had a unique motto different to the University of Wales.
Cofion,
Kevin

[Diehard]

Kevin,

I can't find a reference anywhere on the net for that motto. As you rightly point out, if it was a welsh badge it would probably have a welsh motto.

Probably is more likely a Buffs badge. Be interesting to find out.

Will