Dating JR Gaunt Bham badges

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Chris,

Bringing the date forward is interesting and will affect some a/a badges. However the metal Yeomanry and cavlry badges are definately wrong even for 1965 and some a/a ones (RRs and 23rd London) were also gone weell before the mid 60s. I look forward to your further work.

Alan

Hi Alan,

Thanks. The Gaunt company has been an absolute nightmare to sort out and I estimate that it has taken me around 30 hours to turn out one and a half pages of A4 on them. The moves, locations, change of company names, 'Johnny Come Latelies' using the name have been very difficult to put into a chronological order. Mind you, all this is referenced back to original company documentation and official War Office correspondance so it should be correct.

Of the 14 companies I have investigated known to have made A/A badges and approx. a further 10 or so with an involvement either in the manufacturing process or possibly making A/A badges, Gaunt has been the hardest to process.

Regards

Chris

[KLR]

Chris, you're a star ! but have you come across anything on Gaunt manufacture before the advent of AA. Gaunt archives I have looked at in Birmingham and in London do not, regretably, have the information we want - types, quantities, slider designations etc etc ! Julian

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by KLR

Chris, you're a star ! but have you come across anything on Gaunt manufacture before the advent of AA. Gaunt archives I have looked at in Birmingham and in London do not, regretably, have the information we want - types, quantities, slider designations etc etc ! Julian

Hi Julian,

I am going through some correspondance with badges in the early 1950's where Gaunt is involved where the increase in gauge of the white metal and gilded metal badges was included.

Julian, going away with Missus and Mutt this weekend but will try to get you some stuff before I go - failing this our Monday.

Regards

Chris

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

Hi Julian,

I am going through some correspondance with badges in the early 1950's where Gaunt is involved where the gauge of the white metal and gilded metal badges was included.

Julian, going away with Missus and Mutt this weekend but will try to get you some stuff before I go - failing this our Monday.

Regards

Chris

This should say:

I am going through some correspondance with badges in the early 1950's where Gaunt is involved where the gauge of the white metal and gilded metal badges was increased.

Regards

Chris

[fearnaught]

Hi, sorry to bring this thread up again but it did mention JR Gaunt trade marks. I've just recently obtained a JR Gaunt US Army Officers cap badge which has on its tail a circle containing the words TRADE MARK and enclosing a griffons head facing left. Has anyone come across this and is it a Gaunt trade mark? Thanks in advance Mike. PS sorry no pic but am at work at the moment.

[rexb]

I think it is likely to be a wolf's head, not a griffin's. The Wolf's Head was a Gaunt trademark. It is included in a J R Gaunt & Son letterhead that was reproduced in "Button Lines" (the journal of The British Button Society), Issue 79, June 1994. The letterhead is undated, but it shows Gaunts' first Warstone Parade factory, that burned down in 1912, as well as two other Gaunt trademarks, that were Thurkle trademarks originally; Gaunts took over Edward Thurkle (sword cutler etc.) in 1899.

I do not know whether Gaunt's were granted the Wolf's Head trademark themselves, or whether it was another of Thurkle's marks. Gaunts were certainly using it by 1902, as it is part of the backmark on a US Infantry Officers button, 1851-1902 pattern, in my collection. The backmark includes the words "BEST QUALITY LONDON", but not Gaunt's name or initials. Another button in my collection has a plain front, while the back shows the Wolf's Head and "EXTRA QUALITY J R G".

[jimbblack56]

Hello all, I wonder if anyone can help me, I have a cap badge with the marking of JRG&S does anyone have any information on the maker please.
Thank you all in advance.

Jim Black

[Frank Kelley]

JRG&S was normally used by Gaunt as a hallmark on their silver.

Originally Posted by jimbblack56

Hello all, I wonder if anyone can help me, I have a cap badge with the marking of JRG&S does anyone have any information on the maker please.
Thank you all in advance.

Jim Black

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by jimbblack56

Hello all, I wonder if anyone can help me, I have a cap badge with the marking of JRG&S does anyone have any information on the maker please.
Thank you all in advance.

Jim Black

Jim
Check out the Makers Marks link top right of the page and here's an example

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/mak...marked_aac.htm

Andy

[PETEM7591]

Hello. I have found this unusual millitary Button Broach/Pin in my collection, with the makers mark " J R GAUNT MONTREAL - MADE IN BRITAIN", it looks authentic enough to me but who knows, has any member seen anymore of this style Broach/Pin?
Peter.

[Mike H]

I dont know if this will throw light or mud at the subject.
The Devon rifle vols badge i obtained came with the sketch and contract cancellation letter.
The badge is mark Gaunt London
The drawing is on a card marked London and Birmingham.But the letter from the MOD is address to Warstone Lane Bham and is dated June 1974

[JerryBB]

I assume this Royal Welch Fusiliers bi metal badge marked J.R.GAUNT B'HAM is one of those made for the collectors market in the 1970's.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by hagwalther

Hi Guys,

I had finished with this thread but here are some references that I based my work on. You will note that the information is most official and dates from 4th January 1967. The files were handled by myself at the Reading Room of the National Archives in Kew in 2012.

The numbers shown refer to my published work in Chapter 16 of my book including reference to the Queen's Regt A/A cap badge with brass slider.

14. Letter from L. M. Arnold of Q (C&GS)1C to J. R. Gaunt & Son Ltd., dated 4th January 1967, titled Anodised Cap Badges Corrosion, labelled E92 and held in file WO 32/20561 at the National Archives, Kew, London.

15. Letter from DISC to L. M. Arnold of Q (C&GS)1C, dated 29th December 1967, titled Badges Organisation Cap – The Queen’s Regiment, labelled E90 and held in file WO 32/20561 at the National Archives, Kew, London.

16. Letter dated 10th January 1968 from J. R. Gaunt & Son Ltd. to L. M. Arnold of the Ministry of Defence titled Anodised Badges - Corrosion, labelled E96 and held in file WO 32/20561 at the National Archives, Kew, London.

17. Directorate from Director of Inspectorate of Stores and Clothing, dated 31st May 1968, labelled E144 and held in file WO 32/20559.

18. Letter from the Director of Army Contracts, Ministry of Defence to Q (C&GS dated 22nd April 1968, titled Badges Cap A. A1 – The Queen’s Regiment, labelled E132 and held in file WO 32/20561 at the National Archives, Kew, London.

References 16 and 17, both dated 1968, are important as they both contain the following statement:

‘...The Vertical Shanks on aluminium Cap Badges are to be aluminium...’ (16) (17)

In effect then, I find it difficult to believe that brass slider A/A cap badges would have been made by manufacturers or accepted by the British Army post late 1968.

Therefore, unless further official evidence comes to the fore, I re-iterate my stand that the Gaunt B'HAM mark was in use in January 1967, as per reference 14 above, with the badges being manufactured in 1966.

Regards,

Chris

Copied from the a/a forum to conclude this query.

[KLR]

I went through the Gaunt papers in the Birmingham Central Library a few years ago.
I don't have the library reference with me here at work but there was a clear record of Gaunt quitting London in 1964 and that henceforth they were simply 'Gaunt Birmingham'.

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by KLR

I went through the Gaunt papers in the Birmingham Central Library a few years ago.
I don't have the library reference with me here at work but there was a clear record of Gaunt quitting London in 1964 and that henceforth they were simply 'Gaunt Birmingham'.

That would mean that all badges made from 1964 onwards would be marked Birmingham, or is it more complicated than that?. Sorry if I sound like a "ficko".