Auxiliary RIC "cadets"

[PeterMc]

I hope I'm not in breach of some rule or another by including a link to another site . However this link will take you to a collection of photos including Guthrie's grave and a few RIC badges, When I get the time I will post some photos to this forum.
http://www.flickr.com/groups/ric/

Peter

[kentfallen]

Hello all.....

I'm the candid non PC web designer you mention above!!!

This thread makes very interesting reading. I am particularly interested in the fact that some RIC men have an official CWGC commemoration whereas others do not! It's quite shocking that we treat these men differently. As far as I'm concerned all I.R.A related deaths should get full CWGC status not just a chosen few...

I'd be most interested in discussing this subject with any other interested party on this excellent forum (which I have only just found).

If anyone has any problems with my site http://www.kentfallen.com just tell me and I will be delighted to help out.

Yes I freely admit that I consider these Irish rebels as murderers. An organisation that kills and maims innocent civilians women and children at a remembrance Sunday parade is in my opinion beyond contempt. Unlike our present government I have no problem describing them as such. There, I said it!

[Laz]

Hello Kentfallen!, I hope you didn't mind me linking your great site, I will be happy to get in touch with you, I was thinking of emailing you last week about another ADRIC member at Kilmichael.

[kentfallen]

Laz,

Yes indeed I would love to hear from you regarding this matter. Just email me on the following email - (clarkneil.at.hotmail.co.uk)

I am interested in the fact that some are commemorated by the CWGC whereas others (the majority) are not. It seems very unfair to me and I should like to correct any error.

If you let me know your website I will be delighted to reciprocate accordingly.

All the very best
Neil

[tynesideirish]

As there seems to be a lot of interested parties a quick Bibliography of good books to be had. All with interesting stuff about the RIC & Tan War. There's many more, mainly concentrating on the IRA's exploits and the Civil war, that you can get if your really interested. But here's a start:

Patrick J. Twohig. Green Tears for Hecuba. Irelands Fight For Freedom.

Patrick Shea. Voices & The Sound of Drums. An Irish Autobiography.

Richard Bennett. The Black & Tans

Martin Matrix Evans & David Lyons. A Terrible Beauty.

G. White & B. O'Shea Irish Volunteer Soldier 1913-23. (Osprey)

[salmon]

Hi stanley if you go to the J A M D website and type
in royal irish constabulary there are some great shots of them in their gear or try GETTY IMAGES type ireland 1920 or 21 some good shot of them there to
hope this helps you cheers. salmon

[seanus]

Returning to the original uniform question...attached is my attempt at a RIC Auxiliary.
By their nickname you have to assume the uniform was a mix of khaki and 'black'. The latter was either the very dark rifle green of the RIC officers or perhaps the black cloth worn by lower ranks of the same.
Blue was never worn by the RIC.
However, did they especially produce balmorals for the B&T or simply use excess items from Scottish regimental stocks that would have been blue with a red tourie.
I have illustrated green but am not convinced that it is correct.


http://i72.servimg.com/u/f72/12/22/09/10/19_ric10.gif

www.uniformsotw.co.uk

[Kiwipom]

Hi all fairly new to this forum but In my family folk law a story is told of one of my Great Uncles who was too young to serve in WW1 But ended up serving in the Black n Tans? is there a Nominal Roll anywhere I can consult?

[Stanley_C_Jenkins]

Hello Seanus,

That is more or less how I imagine an RIC "cadet" to have looked, the belts and bandoliers being either black or brown, while I think the rather strange headgear would have been black or khaki, probably depending on which company the man belonged to. Do you think they would have worn their WWI medal ribbons?

[ruclo13932]

Hi, I'm new to this forum and I would like to point out a number of things you have said below. 1 The Auxies were not Black and Tans. Tans were short service special constables and were recruited from ex soldiers (enlisted men). The original plan was to have the Auxies (ex Military officers including RAF and RN) as an officer corps to the Tans but things do not always go according to plan. 2 The Auxies wore military uniforms with O'shanter caps but did change to blue uniforms in 1921 into 22 and changed the cap to a Balmoral with a distinctive flash behind the Crowned Harp badge to distinguish which Company they belonged to. 3 Tans were attached to police stations and did not act independently as the Auxies did. 4 They (Tans) did work with the Auxies in operations as did regular RIC men. 5 The RIC had a Reserve Force from 1839 when it was still the Irish Constabulary. 6 The Reserve Force and the Auxies and Tans should never be confused. 7 No black cloth was worn by the RIC apart from officers wearing it on head gear or small items on uniform. 8 The tunic or trousers were RIC green (almost black). If you wish to contact me I will certainly reply. I am presently performing a lot of research into the Auxies and would like to hear from like minded people. Thanks.

Originally Posted by seanus

Returning to the original uniform question...attached is my attempt at a RIC Auxiliary.
By their nickname you have to assume the uniform was a mix of khaki and 'black'. The latter was either the very dark rifle green of the RIC officers or perhaps the black cloth worn by lower ranks of the same.
Blue was never worn by the RIC.
However, did they especially produce balmorals for the B&T or simply use excess items from Scottish regimental stocks that would have been blue with a red tourie.
I have illustrated green but am not convinced that it is correct.


http://i72.servimg.com/u/f72/12/22/09/10/19_ric10.gif

www.uniformsotw.co.uk

[Stanley_C_Jenkins]

The original subject of this thread were the badges worn by the RIC "cadets". I don't think there has been any confusion with the rank-and-file Black & Tans, who would presumably have worn standard RIC police badges. However, any discussion of about the Auxiliary RIC cadets will inevitably involve the wider subject of the "Tans".

[Dez]

Hello Stanley,
I haven't posted on this thread before, but I have been following the thread with some interest. The origional subject of this thread was 'the badges worn by Auxiliary Cadets of the R.I.C.' The Auxiliary Cadets wore the officer's version of the King's Crown R.I.C. cap badge. This was worn on the dark green Balmoral (for some reason, people like to call them by anything only their proper name). In Dec.1920 the Balmoral was issued to all ranks, and the different Companies identified by the cloth backings behind the badge. These backings are varied in colour and shape and there doesn't seem to be any significance attached to the different shapes used. The first Company was formed in Sept. 1920 and all ranks wore the khaki scottish bonnet at that time, some time between this date and Dec.1920, the officers only, began to wear the dark green Balmoral and at the same time the badge backings to denote the Company. This is why you see mixed headgear in the same photograph. I have never seen a photograph of the khaki bonnet with a badge attached. I should say here, that I have seen in the museum context, half a dozen different examples of Balmorals which have the or's version of the R.I.C. cap badge fitted, this physical evidence is not supporded by the photographic evidence. I hope someday to see a photograph with an or's badge in use, which would verify that both types were actually used, and the museum examples didn't have their or's badges added, as no officer type was available to them. As far as uniform badges go, I have read of a group of Auxiliaries parading at Downing Street wearing Royal artillery badges on their lapels, but haven't seen a photograph of this, but I have seen just one Cadet in a group photograph wearing Machine Gun Corps badges in his lapels, and in another group, a Cadet wearing RFC/RAF pilots wings on his tunic. All these relate to the WW1 uniforms which were worn by a lot of the Cadets. Medal ribbons were widely worn with pride, as a lot of these men were highly decorated from service in WW1 and in Russia in 1919. Maybe this will clear up a few points and even generate more questions, but more importantly more answers, and more photographs.
Dez