Drake Battalion, unvoided crown, not Gaunt

[High Wood]

I would like some thoughts on this Drake Division cap badge please. The crown is unvoided and it has no J.R.Gaunt maker's plate and no sweat hole behind the sailing ship.

I have read many threads on Drake Division badges this morning that seem to show conflicting views on what makes a good one.

I am convinced that it is genuine and will produce my evidence to this effect in due course.

Simon

[manchesters]

Simon,

I have not read the other threads and will comment purely on what I see.

I see a crisp strike, nice colours, good strong loops and a patina that I would trust.

In short I think its a genuine badge.

tregards

[High Wood]

Thank you Simon, those are all pertinent points and yet it doesn't seem to have all the recognised features of what is considered to be a good badge.

There is a space between Auxilio and Livino and there are eight lines of longitude which are considered good points. There is no maker's plaque, no sweat hole, the crown is not voided and there is no sign of Great Britain on the globe, which is quite literally a mess of squiggles, rather like worms crawling through a bird cage.

My contention is however, that this badge was not made by Gaunt but by some other maker and is entirely genuine.

Simon

[Luke H]

Certainly not from the Gaunt die.

I think nowadays with profliferation of re-strikes/fakes anything that doesn’t fit the accept standard results in a cry of fake or restrike. On more than one occasion this has seen genuine badges discarded only to be accepted as genuine later.

The badge looks good. Lack of a braze hole is not damming, WW1 Lambourne badges for example lacked them.

I agree the loops are a nice ‘D’ shape (not modern looking at all and no feet), badge seems well struck and has what appears to be genuine age to it.

I believe Paddy has one in his album like this also. There’s also another on eBay (item no. 273045352722) which again appears to have some considerable age to it and identical loops.

Personally I believe it could easily be a WW1 makers variation. If this was my badge it’d be in my ‘definitely maybe’ tin.

Cheers,
Luke

[Alex Rice]

Hi Simon
There was a thread a few years ago about RND badges which were most likely original but weren't Gaunt made, I'll see if I can find it.
I would not like to say either way whether yours is good or not but here are some comments. Firstly, the ship is poorly made, I would expect it to have far better detail. Secondly, there is reasonably crisp detail in the reverse, but only in the areas of the crown and scroll at the top, and the globe and scroll at the bottom. The wreath detail on the back is not nearly as crisp which raises a question mark.
There seems to be a similar one on sale here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-1st-D...gAAOSwT~9WiBXC

Cheers,
Alex

[grenadierguardsman]

I agree with Alex, the quality of the ship is shocking. I wouldn't want it in my collection.
Andy

[Phil2M]

The patina and the sandy looking braize, reminds me of the fakes coming out of Eastern Europe.

[Alex Rice]

Here is a link to an earlier discussion about RND badges and also the Gaunt / non-Gaunt badges. Unfortunately the Drake badge doesn't get much of a mention.
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...light=division
Cheers,
Alex

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by Alex Rice

Hi Simon
There was a thread a few years ago about RND badges which were most likely original but weren't Gaunt made, I'll see if I can find it.
I would not like to say either way whether yours is good or not but here are some comments. Firstly, the ship is poorly made, I would expect it to have far better detail. Secondly, there is reasonably crisp detail in the reverse, but only in the areas of the crown and scroll at the top, and the globe and scroll at the bottom. The wreath detail on the back is not nearly as crisp which raises a question mark.
There seems to be a similar one on sale here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-1st-D...gAAOSwT~9WiBXC

Cheers,
Alex

Alex,

I would say that the badge offered for sale on Ebay is identical to mine and is also genuine. I am not sure what to make of the latter part of his description, except to say that the Drake battalion were obviously not in the vanguard of the RND.

"KC. An original. The 1st Drake Battalion. RND. Cap badge in very good used condition. The Rearest of the five Battalions".

Simon

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman

I agree with Alex, the quality of the ship is shocking. I wouldn't want it in my collection.
Andy

That is fair enough but I am definitely going to keep it. You will see why in due course.

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by Phil2M

The patina and the sandy looking braize, reminds me of the fakes coming out of Eastern Europe.

All R.N.D. badges are heavily faked and the copies are getting more accurate. This particular badge came with some other related items via a family who were clearing an elderly relative's house. The badge is encrusted with dirt, particularly to the reverse, and now that I have allowed it to soak in warm water and gently cleaned it, the detail is much clearer.

The point of this particular thread is to show that a lot of badges are dismissed as fakes due to the prevailing consensus of opinion about what makes a right badge.

I understand why this happens when the market is flooded with forgeries both old and new. I am attempting to demonstrate that not all badges issued during wartime were of the highest quality and therefore should not be dismissed out of hand.

[paj1]

Hi
The Letters in DRAKE also seem very thin

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Certainly not from the Gaunt die.

I think nowadays with profliferation of re-strikes/fakes anything that doesn’t fit the accept standard results in a cry of fake or restrike. On more than one occasion this has seen genuine badges discarded only to be accepted as genuine later.

The badge looks good. Lack of a braze hole is not damming, WW1 Lambourne badges for example lacked them.

I agree the loops are a nice ‘D’ shape (not modern looking at all and no feet), badge seems well struck and has what appears to be genuine age to it.

I believe Paddy has one in his album like this also. There’s also another on eBay (item no. 273045352722) which again appears to have some considerable age to it and identical loops.

Personally I believe it could easily be a WW1 makers variation. I this was my badge it’d be in my ‘definitely maybe’ tin.

Cheers,
Luke

Paddy does indeed have an identical badge in his album and I am hoping that he will see this thread. Here is a link to his badge.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=143518

[Alan O]

In my opinion Gaunt did not make this badge. However I believe that this is another WW1 maker who also made this badge. I would have it my collection.

[High Wood]

Thank you for that Alan. I am just waiting for Paddy to comment and I will post the other items that came from the same house clearance.