Genuine Or Not, Mmg, Leinster, Lond Scottish

[badgecollector]

hi everyone
any thoughts on these would be great. came off a big board of badges put together many years ago by a ww1 vet. or so the family says.
i know nothing about british badges so appreciate the help
BC

[badgecollector]

and another badge

[badgecollector]

what about this one?

[Mike]

not looking good to me.

last badge:
is the "MMG" fixed onto the guns with lead solder?
we have another discussion going on MGC/MMG at the moment here

[Alan O]

The Leinster has all the construction of a genuine badge but it is the condition that puts me off. The discolouration is typical of artificial aging. The London Scots is particularly oddly coloured as if it has been buried or treated to make it look old. It could well be genuine but I do wonder where they have been kept to get them in that condition. If they were offered to me I would walk away.

Alan

[Sonofacqms]

Without actually holding the badges it's difficult to say, I don't like the look of the London Scottish as it looks as though it's been artificially aged. The Leinsters has braize holes, but how did the white metal get in that state? As for the MMG, again the white metal looks artificially aged, maybe repaired with lead solder and not cleaned. I am always reluctant to look at "veterans" collections as I once went with a friend to look at a collection "put together by an old chap who had collected them before I was born" I think it was 40% real badges and the rest restrikes! I was not popular with the old chap when I gave my friend my opinion on them, but seeing as we were talking four figure money I would have been less than honest if I said anything else.

[Luke H]

I definately don't like the look of the 14th of MMG, however like Alan says the Leinster looks made in the right way and the slider is OK, how easy does it bend? A genuine one should be very tough indeed, if it bends easily then it's definately a repro.

The worrying thing is that if weathered properly the Leinster could quite easily decieve!

The colouration of the 14th London and Leinster does look like chemical ageing, I can't think on any kind of natural conditions which would cause such an effect. Aftering handling the 14th Ldn and Leinster do your hands feel sort of dirty or have a metalic/chemical smell on them?

Luke

[badgecollector]

hi all
thanks for the replies. out of all the badges the MMG is the most unconvincing.
these badges were mounted in an open frame and had been there for years as i removed them from the board.
i was told they used to live on the wall in the house, however, when the old chap died, the frame was banished to the shed, where it stayed for 20+ years.
there was a sterling badge that was black with tarnish and there was a an aussie badge in whitemetal that is definately genuine, that also has the same look as the others.
can these be cleaned up? how would you clean a whitemetal badge?
BC

[dragonz18]

I do not have a real problem with any of them. ??
The faking of 'aged' badges has us all feeling a little nervous & cautious ?
The ageing here, is very similar to what I've seen on many other origionals the have been stuck in 'the shed' in moist & dusty conditions & amongst other metalic & chemical items, for long periods of time. In some cases in cowsheds for 60+ years.!!
I think that the MGC is one of the earliest patterns, with repaired letter attachments here. ? (This coinsides ,time-wise with other thoughts ,on the MGC thread also.)
Treat them well b.c. ,they've had a hard life, up till now.

Cheers ! & thanks for sharing !
Steve

[Luke H]

Steve would you really be happy with that MMG? It has that iridescent green/purple on it which is what you get from chemicals used to darken badges... as seen on loads and loads of fake Gaut badges.

For them to go as seen that shed wouldn't have four walls let alone a roof, white metal badges exposed to damp go grey not metallic black, look at the strage patternation on the London Scottish, if it were damp which caused it it would look the same all over or at least very very similar in tone when this one really does not.

As for the old story of badges being kept up the shed, yes it does happen but these were supposedly in a case hence a double layer of protection yet the look like they've had none whatsoever. The badges should be fresh looking if they have been in cases espically the backs of the badge yet they are as you see them.

I'm not saying definitely they're bad but if I saw them in a militaria market I'd brand them bad repros with one glance.

BC you could try cleaning with with a cloth (tho in this case I believe it would do nothing), you could also polish them lightly to get the chemical ageing/'corrosion' off then hang out the window under the ledge to darken them down

Regards,

Luke

[badgecollector]

thanks for the replies
luke, the badges were on a wood backing covered with cloth. they were in a frame, but there was no glass or provision for glass.
i believe some of the badges and many of the buttons have been gilt plated. (i will post some pics of them soon) as i said, i have no idea regarding british badges, however, there were some very good other badges.
the families story checks out with the grandfather being in WW1 and i have the badges he wore.
BC

[dragonz18]

Generally speaking, most of the badges that I ever saw ( here in NZ anyway ) in gardening & tool sheds ,cow sheds,etc were usually hanging from a nail ,on a belt ,in an old box or loose in a drawer full of old bolts ,wire ,washers, old oil rags & 1/2 used & now almost solid tubes of glue,etc. Many having been there since the 20's ,30's & 40's !
The most common place to find them though ,was in an old tabacco thin, usually along with a few bits of old 'baccy' & foreign coins, as well.
Cheers !
Steve

[dragonz18]

b.c.,
can you let me know the details/conditions of how you took these pics.? Either PM or post ,will do fine !
I have an origional belt of badges, in much the same condition,etc. as the ones you've most kindly shown us. Would realy like to repeat the proper effect here, but mine seem to come out too bright ,etc. for good comparisons. But in reality they look very similar.

Cheers !
Steve