Royal Irish/Ulster Constabulary

Hello,

Thought I would share some of my collection of irish constabulary items.

A RIC constable's helmet dated 1909 and an RUC officer's peaked cap (I am trying to research the officer at the minute)

Jonny

[signalman]

thanks for the pics j.the helmet has to me a longish shape was this particular to the r.i.c. or general to the police overall? phil

[Eddie Parks]

I don't think any other police force wore this helmet. It essentially the army cloth helmet of 1879 in rifle green cloth with bronzed fittings. Lovely thing and the officer's ones are really special.

[lol513]

Anyone an idea how much a 1904-1922 Dublin met cap badge is worth? met

[Dublin Peeler]

Originally Posted by lol513

Anyone an idea how much a 1904-1922 Dublin met cap badge is worth? met

Is this an actual cap badge (oval garter with crown top), or a wreathed helmet plate?
Cheers...Tom

[Ephemeire53]

I was hoping someone could help in identifying the era or type of an RIC badge & button. Please see the attached photographs.

The badge measures approx. 2" long x 1 1/8" wide, with two lugs on the rear. The badge is black in colour, worn on some of the high points with the original bronze showing through.

The button is black, with no makers name on the reverse.

Any help in identification of the era would be appreciated. Do they have any value?

[Eddie Parks]

The badge is from an RIC "night hat" a bowler had shaped helmet worn on night beats is some Irish cities. Also exists in KC and QC. QVC examples are rare and expensive. Buttons not rare and not expensive!
Eddie

[Ephemeire53]

Originally Posted by Eddie Parks

The badge is from an RIC "night hat" a bowler had shaped helmet worn on night beats is some Irish cities. Also exists in KC and QC. QVC examples are rare and expensive. Buttons not rare and not expensive!
Eddie

Many thanks for the information, unfortunately I am a little bit naïve on the acronyms. Can I take it that KC is Kings Crown, QC is Queens Crown and QVC is Queen Victoria's crown, hope I'm not making a complete fool of myself.
My mother died and this was amongst her possessions. I know there were a number of members of the extended family were in the RIC. The most notable being my first cousin 2x removed, Robert Samuel Pakenham who I believe reached a very high rank (possibly Chief Constable) in the RUC eventually. He was also Queen Victoria's personal bodyguard during her visit to Ireland.

The badge has no direct sentimental value for me at all and I wonder if you could give me a ballpark estimation of its value. Many thanks again for taking the time to respond to my query.

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by Ephemeire53

Many thanks for the information, unfortunately I am a little bit naïve on the acronyms. Can I take it that KC is Kings Crown, QC is Queens Crown and QVC is Queen Victoria's crown, hope I'm not making a complete fool of myself.
My mother died and this was amongst her possessions. I know there were a number of members of the extended family were in the RIC. The most notable being my first cousin 2x removed, Robert Samuel Pakenham who I believe reached a very high rank (possibly Chief Constable) in the RUC eventually. He was also Queen Victoria's personal bodyguard during her visit to Ireland.

The badge has no direct sentimental value for me at all and I wonder if you could give me a ballpark estimation of its value. Many thanks again for taking the time to respond to my query.

Pakenham is a name I associate with high rank in the RIC and in Ireland generally because Pakenham is the family name of the Lords Longford.

[Ephemeire53]

Originally Posted by Hussar100

Pakenham is a name I associate with high rank in the RIC and in Ireland generally because Pakenham is the family name of the Lords Longford.

Good observation, that is quite true. However Robert Samuel Pakenham and his father John were both born in Co. Mayo, John was a land agent on an estate there. There is a link with the landed gentry Pakenham's of Co. Westmeath. John's father was reputed to have been one of the gentry originally but somehow was disowned by his family, or maybe there was some scandal which resulted in them been removed to Co. Mayo. It was quite normal in those days to deal with "black sheep" in this fashion. Robert Samuel had to work his way up through the ranks to get to his lofty position, there was no one to "sponsor" him as such.

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by Ephemeire53

Good observation, that is quite true. However Robert Samuel Pakenham and his father John were both born in Co. Mayo, John was a land agent on an estate there. There is a link with the landed gentry Pakenham's of Co. Westmeath. John's father was reputed to have been one of the gentry originally but somehow was disowned by his family, or maybe there was some scandal which resulted in them been removed to Co. Mayo. It was quite normal in those days to deal with "black sheep" in this fashion. Robert Samuel had to work his way up through the ranks to get to his lofty position, there was no one to "sponsor" him as such.

I see. I'm almost sure I was reading about him in relation to the RIC just a couple of weeks ago. I can't remember what book it was but I'm almost certain it was one of my own. I'll rack my brain a little and see if I can remember and look up what I was reading before posting it for you.

[Ephemeire53]

Originally Posted by Hussar100

I see. I'm almost sure I was reading about him in relation to the RIC just a couple of weeks ago. I can't remember what book it was but I'm almost certain it was one of my own. I'll rack my brain a little and see if I can remember and look up what I was reading before posting it for you.

Thanks for that I would really appreciate it, I am heavily into genealogy and it would be great to get some further information on him. Thanks again.

[Eddie Parks]

If you Google "Robert Samuel Pakenham irish constabulary" you get some interesting hits. He was a constable in 1914 so I doubt he had much time to get very senior in the RIC - perhaps the RUC?

And take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%3A...Police_Honours when he's a head constable in the RUC

And from Irish Medal Forum

Mr. R.S. Pakenham
Friday, 01 June 2007 00:00 Liam Dodd E-mail Print PDF
Obituary

by Liam Dodd

Mr. Robert Samuel Pakenham, who as a member of the R.I.C. was one of the plain-clothes bodyguards to Queen Victoria during her visit to Dublin in April 1900, died yesterday at his home in Belfast, aged 85. He joined the R.I.C. over 63 years ago.

REGISTER TO READ MORE...

[Ephemeire53]

Originally Posted by Eddie Parks

If you Google "Robert Samuel Pakenham irish constabulary" you get some interesting hits. He was a constable in 1914 so I doubt he had much time to get very senior in the RIC - perhaps the RUC?

And take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%3A...Police_Honours when he's a head constable in the RUC

And from Irish Medal Forum

Mr. R.S. Pakenham
Friday, 01 June 2007 00:00 Liam Dodd E-mail Print PDF
Obituary

by Liam Dodd

Mr. Robert Samuel Pakenham, who as a member of the R.I.C. was one of the plain-clothes bodyguards to Queen Victoria during her visit to Dublin in April 1900, died yesterday at his home in Belfast, aged 85. He joined the R.I.C. over 63 years ago.

REGISTER TO READ MORE...

Thank you very much for that information, I really appreciate the time you have put into this. Regarding my original query about the rarity of the badge, have you any comments, are my assumptions correct about the QVC?

[grey_green_acorn]

Originally Posted by Ephemeire53

Many thanks for the information, unfortunately I am a little bit naïve on the acronyms. Can I take it that KC is Kings Crown, QC is Queens Crown and QVC is Queen Victoria's crown, hope I'm not making a complete fool of myself.
My mother died and this was amongst her possessions. I know there were a number of members of the extended family were in the RIC. The most notable being my first cousin 2x removed, Robert Samuel Pakenham who I believe reached a very high rank (possibly Chief Constable) in the RUC eventually. He was also Queen Victoria's personal bodyguard during her visit to Ireland.

The badge has no direct sentimental value for me at all and I wonder if you could give me a ballpark estimation of its value. Many thanks again for taking the time to respond to my query.

You may find that he was a Head Constable which was the highest non-commissioned rank roughly equivalent to a Sergeant Major.

Also might be worth looking here

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/r...nstabulary.htm

Tim