Unknown backmark

[DaveA]

Hi, I need help identifying a manufacturer (presumably English) from the mid 19th century. The back mark had a swan over a scroll bearing the word "Persta et Praevale" Any ideas?

[Cribyn]

Hello Dave

A very unusual backmark and not one I have come across before.

The backmark itself is more the sort of device you would find on the front of a livery button!

The crown over 'VR' device was used by some Australian military units and as you are in Australia is there a chance that this is an Australian maker?

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Roger

[btns]

The answer was in the (now lost) work of John Dunnigan.
It is a Watts & Manton trademark.

[Cribyn]

Hello btns

Many thanks for that very useful bit of information.

This would possibly date the button to about 1867 on when the partnership of Dain, Watts & Manton, Button Manufacturers and Merchants of Regent Street, Birmingham, was dissolved in favour of one between 'Watts & Manton'.

Possibly the 'new' firm of 'Watts & Manton' continued to use an existing trade mark, in which case the button could be a little earlier.

Roger

[btns]

quoting John Dunnigan:
"Watts & Manton, Regent Works, Birmingham, trademark registered Jan. 1876, when it had been in use for 18 years."

[DaveA]

Many thanks for the replies. The button in silver, I believe, is the first pattern NSW Police button dating from about 1862. Photographic evidence shows this was a "general service" button issued prior to the arrival of supplies of the purpose designed NSW Police buttons in about 1863-4. These buttons also seem to have been used by militia units in brass and other groups in white metal. The dates of the makers marks tie in with this.

[Philip Watts]

I am the great great grandson of Robert Watts of Dain Watts and Manton and would be very interested in acquiring some of the company's work. Any suggestions?

[Jaxson]

We have a similar button found in a deceased estate. We are curious too