Glengarry/Pugarre badge QVC

[Cardiffbloke]

"All dinosaurs are thin at one end; much thicker in the middle; and then thin again at the other end"... That's my theory..... and its mine!..... Nobody else's......

[Malcolm Davey]

I am not casting an opinion on wether Johns badge is genuine or not, but i was under the impression that Glengarry badges had north south lugs and not east west or am i mis-informed.

Malc

[Mike]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

If this is David Douglas, then I for one cannot be bothered to reply as I have a life to get on with!

So if is you, Furfuffaluff back under your rock!

Mike,
please don't take too long with the ban this time!

Best regards

Andy

It's not that person.

John Bull, apologies and please carry on if you wish.

[John Bull]

Originally Posted by Mike

It's not that person.

John Bull, apologies and please carry on if you wish.

Dear Mike,

I sincerely apologize for my reply to the two persons who chose to treat my explicitly described efforts to identify this badge as imbecilic crap. I did not expect to receive such abusive remarks on this Forum, only a serious rational discussion on the information that I have given and that of other contributors and sources of information.

I have given a wealth of information that only needs either corroborative or combative comment, not personal abuse. There is no need for that on a badge collectors Forum.

I have put my case in great detail and if it is wrong, then I expect replies which logically disprove it.

After all, it is blatantly obvious that nobody knows what this badge is, not even the Museums or military authorities and to me it is a unique case of unknown identity in the history of British military cap badges and a challenge to independent and serious collectors to unravel.

I am still waiting for some rational reply which sheds positive light on this apparently singular and unique case of unidentified regimental regalia.

I will continue to take an interest in my thread, but will not be treated as some idiotic mischief maker. I expect experienced and adult reactions, not juvenile gibberish which will only receive the reply from me it deserves with interest.

[REMEVMBEA1]

Originally Posted by Mike

It's not that person.

John Bull, apologies and please carry on if you wish.

But please, if you ask for an opinion don't go off the deep end when the opinion you get doesn't fit your theory. I'd be a bit prepared to listen to the NAM and the Regimental museums if i were you. For at least 30 years I've had a 96th Regt Glengarry badge but although I think it may be genuine I'm not inclined to get into arguments about it if other people think it's a fake.

[Mike]

JB, your style was quite reminiscent of another person active on the forum some time ago but some have jumped to the wrong conclusion.

Personally my knowledge on this material could be written on the back of the proverbial "fag packet" (cue laughter from our American cousins)

But... we have in the thread an authority on the material of this era that has passed comment (yes he wrote the book(s) on the subject), so it's probably worth giving his comments some serious consideration.

[John Bull]

Originally Posted by REMEVMBEA1

But please, if you ask for an opinion don't go off the deep end when the opinion you get doesn't fit your theory. I'd be a bit prepared to listen to the NAM and the Regimental museums if i were you. For at least 30 years I've had a 96th Regt Glengarry badge but although I think it may be genuine I'm not inclined to get into arguments about it if other people think it's a fake.

Here we go again, a non-contributory reply My experience in many aspects of life is that there is no better way of resolving a problem than to ask the ordinary footsloggers. The Captain hits the iceberg, but the ordinary seaman see`s it coming.

I have done an immense amount of web searching on this matter and come up with very little, but variety is the spice of life and I would have thought that a large family of serious collectors can contribute a wealth of information.

It is no use just accepting the rather bland replies from so called official bodies who obviously do not know precisely what they should do. None of these people will give a POSITIVE answer on this badge, just a guess, because they simply do NOT know. A remarkable and unbelievable situation. For some unexplained reason their records have disappeared into a Black Hole.

I joined this Forum to see if I could get a positive and sensible answer to this eternal mystery from serious and dedicated collectors, no to be confronted by what the NAM and other Museums know or do not know.

If I believed what these people say, then I would have been a happy chappy 25 years ago, but a good engineer never believes what he is told, he needs proof. Had I believed everything I was told in life, I would not be alive today.

It is the non-conformist that changes history - remember Darwin ?

[John Bull]

Originally Posted by Mike

JB, your style was quite reminiscent of another person active on the forum some time ago but some have jumped to the wrong conclusion.

Personally my knowledge on this material could be written on the back of the proverbial "fag packet" (cue laughter from our American cousins)

But... we have in the thread an authority on the material of this era that has passed comment (yes he wrote the book(s) on the subject), so it's probably worth giving his comments some serious consideration.

Hello Mike,

Thanks. I do read books, but only non-fiction.

Addendum :- I would be delighted to continue all these conversations, but they are rather Off-Topic and responses backed up by some rational and explanatory evidence would be more appreciated.

If the thread is given sufficient time to penetrate the depths of our membership adequately and there are no more positive replies, then the matter can RIP.

[Mike]

well, there's a few here:

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/aut...mber_books.htm

one at the top of the list looks good.

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by John Bull

Here we go again, a non-contributory reply My experience in many aspects of life is that there is no better way of resolving a problem than to ask the ordinary footsloggers. The Captain hits the iceberg, but the ordinary seaman see`s it coming.

I have done an immense amount of web searching on this matter and come up with very little, but variety is the spice of life and I would have thought that a large family of serious collectors can contribute a wealth of information.

It is no use just accepting the rather bland replies from so called official bodies who obviously do not know precisely what they should do. None of these people will give a POSITIVE answer on this badge, just a guess, because they simply do NOT know. A remarkable and unbelievable situation. For some unexplained reason their records have disappeared into a Black Hole.

I joined this Forum to see if I could get a positive and sensible answer to this eternal mystery from serious and dedicated collectors, no to be confronted by what the NAM and other Museums know or do not know.

If I believed what these people say, then I would have been a happy chappy 25 years ago, but a good engineer never believes what he is told, he needs proof. had I believed everything I was told in life, I would not be alive today.

It is the non-conformist that changes history - remember Darwin ?

JB,
as it appears that you are not the Distasteful David Douglas, I will again state what I know of this badge! They were on sale in the SWB museum in the late 1970's and were also sold by Martin Marsh, who produced 1000s of restrike badges. They are still being manufactured today as the image you show at the start of this thread is from a well known supplier of reproduction badges.

I have an example in my collection and as you say it is very well made, although I've seen some rather nasty examples too! As a collector and seller of Military Badges, I have had a handful of these, none of which I would deem as genuine due to a combination of points, such as lug position and style and the weight. The die struck examples are certainly not horse brasses and I still stand by my original thoughts, that their origin stems from the supply to collector or trinket market, stemmed by an order for items for sale at the SWB museum shop along with probably hundreds of 24th Zulu War helmet plates.

In summary, although they may look it, in my opinion they are not genuine issued Victorian era items and I would never attempt to sell one as such!

Best regards

Andy

[QOSY]

Originally Posted by John Bull

Here we go again, a non-contributory reply My experience in many aspects of life is that there is no better way of resolving a problem than to ask the ordinary footsloggers. The Captain hits the iceberg, but the ordinary seaman see`s it coming.

I have done an immense amount of web searching on this matter and come up with very little, but variety is the spice of life and I would have thought that a large family of serious collectors can contribute a wealth of information.

It is no use just accepting the rather bland replies from so called official bodies who obviously do not know precisely what they should do. None of these people will give a POSITIVE answer on this badge, just a guess, because they simply do NOT know. A remarkable and unbelievable situation. For some unexplained reason their records have disappeared into a Black Hole.

I joined this Forum to see if I could get a positive and sensible answer to this eternal mystery from serious and dedicated collectors, no to be confronted by what the NAM and other Museums know or do not know.

If I believed what these people say, then I would have been a happy chappy 25 years ago, but a good engineer never believes what he is told, he needs proof. Had I believed everything I was told in life, I would not be alive today.

It is the non-conformist that changes history - remember Darwin ?

Hello JB
Well here is a contributory positive reply for you....The badge is an out and out fake. I had one of these in the 80's from Martin Marsh, and as you say it is well made, but non the less not genuine to it's period. From the stance you have taken on this subject, I would think that you would soon have us believe that the vast majority of Glengarry badges on Ebay have provenance...and all from the same stable. You have been offered sound sensible advice, but have chosen to ignore the facts and concentrate instead on your own interpretation of a fairy story. If I were you I would put the badge on Ebay...knowledgeable collectors will pay at least £5 for it
Jim

[davec2]

Hi JB,

As a member who has been verbally abused in the past by the then member who we mistook yourself to be, my apologies for slagging you off.

I have just acquired a first edition of G.F.McWilliam's book ( I must find out why he calls himself Jeff but his initial is G ?? ), A Collector's Guide to Infantry Glengarry Badges 1951 to 1881 and I have had my nose in it several times, with my limited experience I can safely say it is an excellent addition to any collectors library.

Lastly, my expression " limited experience " might be a clue to my next remark, this Forum isn't made up of all the world's leading experts, there are a lot of members who do know an awful lot about their chosen subjects but no-body, including yourself, knows it all, we do though, like to contirbute, whether helpfully or not we feel we have added something to the debate !

In my own case, I generally end up with the dreaded " foot in mouth " disease striking me down but what ever we do write, doesn't give you the right to go on the offensive to everyone just because they disagree with you or your theory, this remark is not meant as an attack on you, neither is it meant to offend, just my point of view but I have to wonder why, after all that has been said, you start your last post with, quote [ Here we go again, a non-contributory reply My experience in many aspects of life is that there is no better way of resolving a problem than to ask the ordinary footsloggers. The Captain hits the iceberg, but the ordinary seaman see`s it coming. ] unquote, I find that pretty confrontational and verging on the rude, to say the least.

Dave.

[wright241]

Originally Posted by John Bull

Here are my pics. Not good, but to good, but best I can do.

I have three of these. All fakes. And they all look the same as yours. You might - want to get Bosleys to voice an opinion. I recall seeing one of these in the Brecon Museum in the late 50's - when you had to go up a narrow winding staircase - and I was left on my own by the then curator. The one you are showing can be bought quite easily on ebay. Even 'Mrs Glamorgan' sells them on a regular basis. I would have thought Andy was in the best position to give an opinion. Even if the rest of us don't know a good GG from a bad one. Good luck.
David

[Cardiffbloke]

Ok, since everyone else has joined together in an apologetic frenzy so shall I.

I apologise for mistaking you as an ignorant, rude, dogmatic but nevertheless comical person who's attitude and stance reminded me of an incredibly funny Monty Python sketch. One where the woman who believed in her theory, discounted everyone else's opinion based on the fact she thought herself utterly and absolutely correct; even in the face of overwhelming contrary first hand evidence.
It was never meant to be personal or rude, just a humourous observation to lighten the moment with a smile.
That you then launched into an apoplectic fit of invective, personal insult and vitriol was im sure quite justified under the circumstances.
I'm pretty certain I would have behaved in such a childish, petty and incredibly one-eyed way too.
Please let me know if you ever come to Cardiff looking for Glengarry badges worn by the King's Dragoon Guards, I'd certainly be happy sell you one at a knock down price as a token of my contrition.... i have quite a few spare and they really are very very rare, trust me... See! No hard feeling John

[Cardiffbloke]

Originally Posted by davec2

Hi JB,

As a member who has been verbally abused in the past by the then member who we mistook yourself to be, my apologies for slagging you off.

I have just acquired a first edition of G.F.McWilliam's book ( I must find out why he calls himself Jeff but his initial is G ?? ), A Collector's Guide to Infantry Glengarry Badges 1951 to 1881 and I have had my nose in it several times, with my limited experience I can safely say it is an excellent addition to any collectors library.

Lastly, my expression " limited experience " might be a clue to my next remark, this Forum isn't made up of all the world's leading experts, there are a lot of members who do know an awful lot about their chosen subjects but no-body, including yourself, knows it all, we do though, like to contirbute, whether helpfully or not we feel we have added something to the debate !

In my own case, I generally end up with the dreaded " foot in mouth " disease striking me down but what ever we do write, doesn't give you the right to go on the offensive to everyone just because they disagree with you or your theory, this remark is not meant as an attack on you, neither is it meant to offend, just my point of view but I have to wonder why, after all that has been said, you start your last post with, quote [ Here we go again, a non-contributory reply My experience in many aspects of life is that there is no better way of resolving a problem than to ask the ordinary footsloggers. The Captain hits the iceberg, but the ordinary seaman see`s it coming. ] unquote, I find that pretty confrontational and verging on the rude, to say the least.

Dave.

Hey Dave, maybe his name is Geoff...... Doh!