Rifle Brigade in Peshawar - Photo

[Charlie 585]

Originally Posted by orasot

Welcome back Ry, great to see you on here again Outstanding stuff mate, I can appreciate the good feeling identifying faces in photos, very rewarding work & a job well done, good old JT, he does turn up some wonderful photos, what a top bloke he is. Keep on posting Ry & hope to catch up again soon,
Best wishes,
Wilf

Thank you Wilf, High praise indeed from a master of the game

Yes this little project has been very rewarding, I am forever stating that I wish that the badges and images that we collect could talk, in this case, well it speaks for itself and yes I can't thank JT enough.

I omitted to do so in my first post but I must take the time to thank Mike and the Mods for allowing me to return and be able to make these posts. Thank you Gents I am indebted to you.

Regards.

Ry

[Charlie 585]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

Ry,

I cannot help but wonder about poor ol' matey down in the dirt. Do we know anything about this rifleman, other than he has had to learn to know his place?!


Attachment 149035

Yes JT, trying to identify individual Riflemen is a difficult task and in the scheme of things it is only a very low percentage of other ranks that appear in named photos.

I'm pleased to say that I have a highly probable result for this chap and his time and place, and name I will reveal shortly.

One more officer to follow before I do though, one which led me on a wild goose chase (albeit) a very interesting one before I managed to pin him down.

Ry

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Charlie 585

Yes JT, trying to identify individual Riflemen is a difficult task and in the scheme of things it is only a very low percentage of other ranks that appear in named photos.

I'm pleased to say that I have a highly probable result for this chap and his time and place, and name I will reveal shortly.

One more officer to follow before I do though, one which led me on a wild goose chase (albeit) a very interesting one before I managed to pin him down.

Ry

Get on with it then, for gawd's sake! I've got people waiting!!!

[Charlie 585]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

Get on with it then, for gawd's sake! I've got people waiting!!!

OK, here we go:

The next officer posed a problem as it is far easier to track down Captains and above due in part to their being less of them which obviously helps.

My first shot at this officer led me to another Lieutenant serving in the Battalion at the time this being Lt Hugh Cairns otherwise known as The Viscount Garmoyle.

Hugo Garmoyle's tale is one of a real boys own nature of how he rose to brigadier gaining the D.S.O. and bar in the Western desert. He was in Command of 7th Motor Brigade in 7th armoured Div but was sadly killed in action in 1942 and he lays lost and forgotten to most in a foreign field. His entry in the CWGC isn't even accurate and it is a great shame.

However, all that said the officer in the image is that of the following officer:

(5) Lieutenant Geoffrey Hamilton Hunt. Rifle Brigade.

Lt G.H. Hunt 1900 – 1956. Commissioned as a 2nd Lt in December 1918 Joined the 4th Bn The Rifle Brigade serving in India and Gibraltar from 1919 to 1922 before their disbandment gaining promotion to Lt in 1920. From 1923-26 he held the appointment of ADC to GOC 1st Div joining 1st Bn RB in 1927 whilst they were stationed at Landi Kotal on the NW Frontier. He returned to the UK from 1928 to1931 to serve as ADC to GOC-in-C Southern Command General Sir A. Montgomery Massingbird before attending the Staff College from 1931-32 and promoted to Captain serving as ADC to CIGS from 1933-36, the year that he married Miss Hope Caroline Johnston daughter of Lt Col & Mrs Johnston. Promoted again to Major in 1938 and acting Lt Col in September 1940 he assumed command of 7RB (1st Bn London Rifle Brigade) leading them in the Western Desert until 1943, then as A/Col he held the appointment of Assistant Military Secretary Allied Forces HQ 1944 - 45 becoming T/Col in January 1944.

He retired from the army in 1948, passing away in 1956 after a long illness.

CBE 1945, 1939-45 S, Africa S, Italy S, F&G S, Def M, 1939-45 War M, Deputy Lieutenant for Lincolnshire 1954.

[Charlie 585]

Last but not least of the servicemen in the image is that old Rifleman, he was.

(6) Rifleman F. Amy

Rfn F Amy features in Lt Col Crosbie's obituary

“His faithful servant, Rifleman Amy, F., acted as his stud groom both at home and in India, where he was to be seen each morning before breakfast at the head of a string of ponies on early morning exercise.”

It is likely that Rfn Amy would accompany Lt Col Crosbie in his daily routine and he is known to have acted as the Bn Photographer, submitting photographs for inclusion in the RB Chronicle. He has probably been invited by the CO to appear on the other side of the lens in this informal group.

I am very pleased to Have identified him being a Rifleman who there is no doubt would have known my Grandfather.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Charlie 585

Last but not least of the servicemen in the image is that old Rifleman, he was.

(6) Rifleman F. Amy

Rfn F Amy features in Lt Col Crosbie's obituary

“His faithful servant, Rifleman Amy, F., acted as his stud groom both at home and in India, where he was to be seen each morning before breakfast at the head of a string of ponies on early morning exercise.”

It is likely that Rfn Amy would accompany Lt Col Crosbie in his daily routine and he is known to have acted as the Bn Photographer, submitting photographs for inclusion in the RB Chronicle. He has probably been invited by the CO to appear on the other side of the lens in this informal group.

I am very pleased to Have identified him being a Rifleman who there is no doubt would have known my Grandfather.

Impressive stuff, Charles. I am amazed at how you have been able to extract that level of detail from this photograph. Little did I know when I acquired it, that so much history was suspended between the paper and the emulsion.

A superb piece of detective work, if I may say so?

JT

[Charlie 585]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

Impressive stuff, Charles. I am amazed at how you have been able to extract that level of detail from this photograph. Little did I know when I acquired it, that so much history was suspended between the paper and the emulsion.

A superb piece of detective work, if I may say so?

JT

Thanks again JT, I am equally amazed and on that note I will conclude with my best educated guess at the identities of the remainder of the group:

The young lady standing next to Lt Hunt I believe to be:

(7) Miss Hope Caroline Johnston daughter of a Lt Col & Mrs Johnston.

This being the lady who Lt G.H. Hunt would go on to marry in 1936.

Looking for clues in the form of a family resemblance I believe that the lady seated in front of Lt V.B. Turner is possibly her mother:

(8) Mrs Johnston.

With regard to the Gentleman in Civilian clothing I believe, again due to resemblance is LT Hunt's Father:

(9) Major Charles Hunt Retd

The lady seated next to Captain Renton is most likely to be his wife and Lt Hunt's Mother:

(10) Mrs Hunt

Finally the young lady standing between Captain Graham and Major retd Hunt is likely to be Lt Hunt's sister:

(11) Miss Hunt? First name not known.

Returning to the date and location of the photograph. I believe that it was taken in the autumn/winter of 1932 either shortly before the Bn left the hill station at Dalhousie or possibly on their return to Jullundur. It is certainly dated before 1st November which is when Lt Turner was promoted to Captain and not too much sooner than that date given Lt Hunt's presence, he, having been employed away from the BN for the earlier part of the year.

There you go, I accept that with regard to the civilians my research does involve an element of guess work but unless another copy of the photo with their names listed comes to light we will never really know without a small element of uncertainty.

[Charlie 585]

(1) Lt Colonel John Patrick Glandore Crosbie. Rifle Brigade.
(2) Captain James Malcolm Leslie Renton. Rifle Brigade.
(3) Captain Ogilvie Blaire Graham. Rifle Brigade.
(4) Lieutenant Victor Buller Turner V.C. Rifle Brigade.
(5) Lieutenant Geoffrey Hamilton Hunt. Rifle Brigade.
(6) Rifleman F. Amy.
(7) Hope Caroline Johnston daughter of a Lt Col & Mrs Johnston.
(8) Mrs Johnston.
(9) Major Charles Hunt Retd.
(10) Mrs Hunt.
(11) Miss Hunt.

[Phil2M]

Flippin' heck! Pretty amazing

Can you do the same for RIC

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Phil2M

Flippin' heck! Pretty amazing

Can you do the same for RIC

Funny you should say that... I have a cracking RIC photo that might just be up your street.

[Charlie 585]

Thanks Phil but it looks like it is your turn next, good luck mate

Regards to all and I hope you have enjoyed the thread as much as I have.

Ry

[Phil2M]

Ive seen the picture, I wouldn't know how to start naming the group.

[Charlie 585]

For anyone who would like even more info on Lt Col J Crosbie there is a very good thread relating to him on the Great War Forum, just search his name on the site.

[High Wood]

Excellent post but I wonder, with regard to Pte Amy, if he doesn't illustrate the great shortage of chairs that was commonplace throughout the Punjab and the North West Provinces during the early 30s. A situation only exacerbated by the great earthquake at Quetta in '35.

Clearly an aspect of colonial history worthy of further research.

[grenadierguardsman]

Are the cross belt plate badges different. Ie the crowns ?
Andy