WW2,British POWs in Normandy.1944.

[Voltigeur]

Hi JJ, sorry no pics in those days (mid-80's) it was a nice piece though. Traded for canadian badges at the time. Now,since I'm on this forum, I could kick myself for letting the beret go.
Jo

[jon prince]

Hello gents, I hope you don't mind a new bloke dragging up an old thread. The beret band mentioned on the C.L.Y. chap was dark green and a Regimental distinction along with the distinctive 'racing stripe' shoulder loops, though I cannot remember off the top of my head whether it was specific to 4C.L.Y. or all C.L.Y.. 3rd and 4th C.L.Y. were amalgamated in July 1944 after Villers Bocage due to losses suffered by both units up to that time. 3 C.L.Y. had landed in Normandy as part of 4th Armoured Brigade, whilst 4 C.L.Y. had been with 22nd Armoured Brigade, 7th Armoured Div., 3rd/4th C.L.Y. continued to serve as part of 4th Armoured Brigade for the rest of the n.w. European campaign.

[labeline]

Should have read the whole thread! In response to an earlier post by Jibba Jabba, I was going to say that 3 & 4 CLY did not amalgamate until after the 4CLY were dessimated at Villers Bocage on 13th June 1944 but Jon Prince beat me to it!!

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba

I forgot to say that the 3rd and 4th CLY became one regiment for D-Day.

It was an unoffical practice to wear a brass title on the shoulder straps after 1941 and it would seam that cloth titles were not always worn. I wonder if those are the original BD's as issued for North Africa? Arms regs may of banned them, but at the end of the day it all depends on what the Commanding Officers says you can wear, that person in my opinion is the decision maker.

These men look very much like those captured by Panzer Ace SS-Obersturmführer Michael Wittmann at Villers-Brocage (if that how its spelt?). In which case those other men are 1st Battalion Rifle Brigade.

-------------------------------------------------------

"....became one regiment for D-Day" Absolutely not - amalgamated at Carpiquet Airfield in, I think early Aug 44 because of battle casualties. Hence 3/4 CLY

The comment on CO's wishes is accurate. Uniform regulations in the British Army - at unit level at least, are a basis for negotiation.

Elsewhere - no berets worn inside out - its a band worn on the beret above the sweatband - CLY regimental distinction. And Wehrmacht capturing troops forbidden to take PWs' beret badges - I don't think so. They could take whatever they liked - in some extreme cases the PWs lives. Sad but true - in Normandy, Crocodile crews were particularly vulnerable to this, such was the horror of the flame throwers.

[LONGSHANKS]

Just a note on the badge taking. I believe in the Geneva Conventions it's actually against the rules to remove insignia etc etc from a POW. But from the many German awards one can bye, minus pin; I don't think asking was the norm either way.....

On this insignia taking. I was interested to read that taking of shoulder boards with regimental numbers was actually the norm during WW1 on trench raids so that the regiment opposing could be identified. Always wondered why there were a few popping up on Ebay so much from WW1. Taken home in the end as souvenirs.

Sorry to go off thread a little.

Simon.

[Luc]

[QUOTE=Voltigeur;28738]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...sgefangene.jpg
Jo, that looks like an 11th Hussars Brown beret with cherry band.

[Voltigeur]

Sorry to disagree with you Luc but read Jon Prince and Mike Jackson's answer......definite CLY.
Jo

[Luc]

I know it doesn't add up, but it's the only beret I've heard of with a contrasting band worn at that time?

[grey_green_acorn]

Illustration by Mike Chappell showing the band around the CLY Beret

Tim

[Luc]

Brilliant Tim, thank you for clearing this up. Is that band for a specific element of CLY or period?

[grey_green_acorn]

Illustration is dated as Normandy 1944. A little more detail in this thread posted some while back


Tim

[Staffsyeoman]

I may be able to get identifications of the Sharpshooters if anyone is interested. No 100% guarantee, but a reasonable chance. Interestingly Mike Chappell's wounded Sharpshooter in the Osprey of Battle Insignia of WW2 has the lanyard on the wrong shoulder.

[Voltigeur]

Hi Staff. I would be interested and, it was written a long time ago that Chappell's illustrations were always based on period photograph.so, the fact that the lanyard is shown on the wrong shoulder he could have a legitimate, original photograph to show it.
Jo

[fearnaught]

Hi, as the rat and the lanyard are back to front maybe the photo was printed in reverse. Wouldn't have been the first time. Mike

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by fearnaught

Hi, as the rat and the lanyard are back to front maybe the photo was printed in reverse. Wouldn't have been the first time. Mike

But the rest of the picture (way of wearing the baret, buttoning of dress) is not.

Could it be that after his arm was packaged like that, he decided to put his lanyard on the other arm, to proud to not wear it at all and to painly to put on the right shoulder (or maybe the medic did it).