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  #1  
Old 11-05-20, 11:12 AM
cce427 cce427 is offline
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Question WW1 or 2

Hi
I have had this photo for many years and it was thought to be WW2, now a second photo has turned up showing a different man with the same name, my Great Grandfather and Great Great Grandfather both had the same name so this could be WW1 and not WW2. I am keen to know the regiment, rank or type of soldier he was, if he was ? He is scary to say the least.
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File Type: jpg thomas daniel ellis.jpg (42.5 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg TDECap.jpg (82.0 KB, 83 views)
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  #2  
Old 11-05-20, 10:48 PM
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Hello cce427, welcome to the Forum. Your account is active and open for posts.
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  #3  
Old 11-05-20, 11:02 PM
cbuehler cbuehler is offline
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I am sure others will be able to confirm the badge, but it does not appear to regular army. The uniform is also not an army uniform I recognize either.
Whatever, the photo and cap style is circa ww1 or earlier.

CB
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  #4  
Old 11-05-20, 11:11 PM
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It’s a Volunteer Training Corps cap badge so definitely WW1. The VTC were effectively the Home Guard of the Great War and your man appears to be wearing the original VTC pattern uniform of a private. I’m sure the VTC aficionados will be able to expand on the exact badge and pin down a unit from its design and his shoulder titles.

Some basic info on the VTC here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volu...Training_Corps

Last edited by Luke H; 11-05-20 at 11:33 PM. Reason: Added link
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  #5  
Old 12-05-20, 01:07 PM
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VTC - likely to be 1915-16 as after then the uniform and badges changed over.

There were half a dozen units who wore this design of cap badge with different county titles at the bottom. Where did he live? There was a GS version without a county designator.


https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...hp?albumid=522

because they were semi- official the VTC records were not archived to my knowledge so VTC personnel records are not recorded.
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  #6  
Old 12-05-20, 02:48 PM
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For those interested in the VTC Ray Westlake has just had published a detailed survey of the VTC and its units.

Details and offer at https://www.naval-military-press.com...raining-corps/

Jon

Last edited by Postwarden; 13-05-20 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Spelling
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  #7  
Old 12-05-20, 03:22 PM
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Hi, cce427;

Luke and Alan are absolutely right; definitely Volunteer Training Corps, so WW1.

There were at least 19 units that utilised the General Pattern with a scroll attached, as shown in your photograph; the scroll designates the town or county of the unit. Only four of these units can be ruled out immediately, because their scroll was too long, or there were other minor variations in the badge. Another four had a very different style of shoulder title to the one shown, but that still leaves about a dozen options.

As Alan suggests, the clue will be where the picture was taken, if you have that information.

In either event, my suggestion would be Surrey VTC. Statistically, Surrey seems to have been the biggest of the three counties that adopted this badge, the others being Essex and Suffolk (empirically, Surrey VTC cap badges are the most readily available of the original VTC badges). Also, the style of the shoulder title is correct; VTC over Battalion Numeral over SURREY, all separate parts. However, other VTC units may also have had this style, as well, so this is by no means conclusive.

Here's what the Surrey insignia looks like:

Hope this helps; Tim
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File Type: jpg 1679 Surrey VTC.jpg (48.9 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg 1679ST Surrey vtc.jpg (50.5 KB, 3 views)
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  #8  
Old 12-05-20, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Postwarden View Post
For those interested in the VTC Ray Westlake has just had published a details survey of the VTC and its units.

Details and offer at https://www.naval-military-press.com...raining-corps/

Jon
Thanks Jon,

Just bought one

regards
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  #9  
Old 14-05-20, 10:59 AM
cce427 cce427 is offline
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Default Thank you

Thank you everyone this is fantastic information and all ties in, he was in Wimbledon so Surrey I guess, here is another group photo with the same man, my grandfather put the x on it
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  #10  
Old 15-05-20, 08:32 AM
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Charliedog012012 Charliedog012012 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Postwarden View Post
For those interested in the VTC Ray Westlake has just had published a detailed survey of the VTC and its units.

Details and offer at https://www.naval-military-press.com...raining-corps/

Jon
My thanks also. Managed to buy a copy. I have been looking for such a book for a while and this seems to be ideal.
Cheers
James
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