RE Diver Qualification Patches

[rolfester]

Hi all,

I am new to this forum and I was looking for some help with the item in the picture. I have heard of the SW patches and never the DW patches. Does anyone else have examples of these or know when they were in circulation?

I assume the different types of patch are based on what type of uniform was being worn at the time (i.e. No.1's, dress, etc.)

Many thanks

Richard

[engr9266]

delete

[engr9266]

Welcome, in all my time in the RE I never came across the DW badge. I believe it stands for DEEP WATER diver but....
Here is my collection

[grey_green_acorn]

Here is my collection. Although, like Jerry, I have a DW badge I have never seen it worn or found any official documentation to authorise it.

Tim

[sapper533]

I remember Spending time with Dennis Edwards, who co wrote the book on Proficiency badges, at the time he was collecting material for the book, he told me that there was no such thing as an Army Deep Water Diver and that the badges were fantasy items produced by the same manufacturers that made the correct Shallow Water Divers badges.
Regards
Sean

[rolfester]

Thanks for the quick responses gents and for confirming my suspicions.

This item was offered to me for £50.00 but the fact it contains these DW badges put me off. Otherwise it's a nice display. Shame really.

[3dg]

Dolphin wrestler?... sorry, couldn't resist!

Chris

[3dg]

Originally Posted by engr9266

Welcome, in all my time in the RE I never came across the DW badge. I believe it stands for DEEP WATER diver but....
Here is my collection

On a serious note now,
Great collection!
The metal mine clearance badges where, when etc were these worn please?
And the same question for the cap tally please?
Also, do the RLC now wear this badge? I swear I've seen a photo somewhere.
Thank you


Chris

[engr9266]

Hello, to answer a couple of your questions now.
17 Port and Maritime Regiment RLC, Marchwood have a dive team so wear the SW badge
The RE cap tally was worn by divers who were based at/near Gosport late 1800's - early 1900's. I believe they wore Naval clothing including cap. My tally is a repro, I have never seen a original and I do not remember seeing one at the RE museum. I have never seen another one since.
A friend of mine was in the process of producing a publication about the divers but I have lost contact with him. He did send me a draft copy of the pages he had so far but I have mislaid them

Jerry

[mike_vee]

I.W.M has an entry about R.E "Shallow Water" divers badge :

"a rectangular base of khaki wool embroidered with a deep sea divers helmet and letters "SW" below in yellow silk on obverse"

There is also an entry about R.E "Deep Water" divers badge :

"a rectangular base of khaki wool embroidered with a deep sea divers helmet in yellow silk on obverse"

Note there is no mention of any letters , could this be because initially divers were only trained as 'deep water' so would not need to differentiate.

"In the early days both Royal Engineers and Royal Sappers and Miners trained as deep water divers. Shallow water diving capabilities were developed in the 1950's."

[leigh kitchen]

According to Edwards and Langley, "British Army Proficiency Badges", 2005 edition the army didn't train deep water divers and the "DW" badges were / are unofficial.
It states that the "SW" badges are obsolete and that an expected new range of badges hadn't at that time appeared.

If someone doesn't post more information from the book in the mean time, I'll expand on it later.

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

According to Edwards and Langley, "British Army Proficiency Badges", 2005 edition the army didn't train deep water divers and the "DW" badges were / are unofficial.

The info about RE deep water divers I posted came from this site :

http://british-army-units1945on.co.u...engineers.html

[engr9266]

Page from E & L book ref Divers updated edition.
You will need to copy and expand.

[mike_vee]

Thanks for that Jerry , whilst it appears to clear up the matter of the DW badge it also makes clear that RE divers could be deep water divers (although trained by the Navy).

So the IWM R.E "Deep Water" diver badge is actually a Royal Navy qualification worn by R.E divers who had completed a Royal Navy diving course.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30064054

[leigh kitchen]

Langley and Edwards "British Army Proficiency Badges" published in 1984 shows the diver's badges as Skill at Arms badges:

121A - the yellow on khaki helmet and the gold anodised helmet, Standard Diver until circa 1980, now Army Advanced Diver.
Worn lower left.

121B - the (gold on blue) diver's helmet with "SW" below, Shallow Water Diver later Army Compressed Air Diver, worn by divers from any unit which may find itself needing a diving capability in its operational role crossing rivers with underwater obstacles which need to be removed quickly, before RE divers could be called upon.
Trained to descend to depths of 30 feet and carry out light underwater tasks.
Worn lower left.

121C - Divers helmet with outline trimmed to shape, Army Diving Supervisor.
A Class I Diver, so qualified after a further two weeks training following the original course to qualify as a standard diver.
Worn upper right.

In 1980 it was intended to replace badges 121A, B, C with new ones reflecting the new titles of Army Advanced Diver and Army Compressed Air Diver and a completely new badge of a full frontal helmet in blue for Army Diving Supervisor, at time of publication they had not materialised.

At time of publication the army did not train or use deep water divers, existing badges featuring the letters "DW" being therefore unofficial.

Their information was based on correspondence with Royal Engineers Diving Establishment 1982.

Believed that prior to 1962 army divers wore Royal Navy diver's badges.
At that time mainly a RE responsibility the badge (with or without "SW") was worn by divers who'd successfully completed a RN diving course and were qualified to work to depths of 180 feet, or to the limits of their equipment whichever was the lesser, on underwater repairs to docks, placing and firing underwater explosives etc.

121A is listed as appearing in yellow on khaki, brass, gold anodised, silver anodised, gold on blue, red on blue.


121B is listed as appearing in yellow on khaki, brass, gold anodised, silver anodised, gold on blue.

121C is listed as appearing in yellow on khaki.

The 2nd edition of the book, published in 2005 shows:

121A - Army Advanced Diver, worn in perpetuity.

121B - now obsolete.

121C - Army Diving Supervisor, worn in perpetuity.