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  #16  
Old 21-02-22, 09:02 PM
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Luke


My question to you, why do we see the AA with not many back image variants (possibly 2)? We know now that the AA was issued to the new QOY HQ (QOYY) Squadron in 1972. You would think that if the AA was in use continually from 1960 you would see a bit more production variation? AA Lancer badges didn't last long in working conditions. Why would you purchase more AA Cap badges for the new QOY HQ Squadron IF the QOYY Regiment had been issued them for the past 10 years? Dont you think QOYY stores would have a good supply of them..... enough for a squadron at least?

You do see at least four production runs in the Gaunt white metal. If you look at the Gaunt badges you can follow the lineage through to the MM change to B'HAM.
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Last edited by GriffMJ; 21-02-22 at 10:05 PM.
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  #17  
Old 21-02-22, 09:53 PM
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Afraid as I’ve not the slightest interest in AA’s or their manufacture methods I cannot answer, sorry. Colin, Mike H or Chris will be your men to answer that.

The whole QC era, dies being cut, sealed but not worn, dies re-used, PRI shops selling what were in effect repros that were then worn (i.e. becoming real) is such a total minefield it makes pre-Territorial glengarry badges look easy.

I genuinely wish you the very best of luck with this research.
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  #18  
Old 22-02-22, 11:35 AM
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Hi All

So there are two orders for the QOYY Gold AA Cap button, the first being on the 22nd of June 1961, for the QOYY Regiment, and the next on the 16th of February 1973 for the QOY HQ (QOYY) Squadron. The last seal date was the 29th of February 1996.

Basically its the Yorkshire Dragoons cap button. Pictured below is the silver AA version.
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Last edited by GriffMJ; 22-02-22 at 11:42 AM.
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  #19  
Old 22-02-22, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GriffMJ View Post
I have just had a look Mike.... there is not much for the actual QOYY. Plenty on the QOY and the Squadron.... but not the Regiment. I have found a pattern card for the Cap button and also some info on the QOY HQ (QOYY) Squadron being supplied with the AA Cap badge of the QOYY cap badge.

SO..... was the AA created for the QOY HQ (QOYY) Squadron post 1971?
Griff

You may be misinterpreting the card for the HQ CSqn in 1971 in that it is likely to be a re-issue of the previous design.

Prior to that Chris Marsh's book does give a lot of official sourced info including the PATTERN NUMBER 17486 sealed on 26 June 1957, the fact that he found evidence of 2 contracts priced in Nov 1966 at 2 shillings 3 pence each. So cap badges in a/a were priced for the QOYY Regt in 1966 a full 5 years before they were then re-attributed to the HQ Sqn.

The recorded maker was Firmin so with a single maker you may only see a single die cut.
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  #20  
Old 22-02-22, 12:11 PM
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....just taking it as I find it Alan. I am sure answers will turn up. The first seal date was, for the QOYY Anodised Aluminium QC, 20th April 1960 (thats a date I have found so far).

* White Metal QOYY QC Sealed 26 June 1957.
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Last edited by GriffMJ; 22-02-22 at 12:17 PM.
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  #21  
Old 22-02-22, 02:18 PM
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Alan

So below proves the existence of the QOYY AA cap badge prior to the new QOY .... other wise it would not be on the card. There is another card, of the same, for the collars in the IWM catalogue. That has white metal QOYY collars on it ....as well as the other Squadrons collars that made up the new QOY.

IWM Catalogue Number : INS 12218

Card: "THE QUEEN'S OWN YEOMANRY. SQUADRON BADGE. REGT EXPENSE" "HQ SQUADRON. Queen's Own Yorkshire Yeomanry". Box 160.

An anodized aluminium (silver) squadron badge for the Queen's Own Yeomanry, with slider on reverse, the badge is shaped around the emblem which features an English Rose in centre imposed on crossed pennons surmounted by QC and with scroll below inscribed "FORRARD", the badge is one of four* insignia mounted on white card entitled "THE QUEEN'S OWN YEOMANRY. SQUADRON BADGE. REGT EXPENSE", the metal insignia are sealed on reverse with green wax impressed with the stamp of the Ministry of Defence Army Officers Pattern Room.

* The other three badges would be the other new QOY Squadrons Cap badges.
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  #22  
Old 22-02-22, 02:44 PM
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No surprise there as we know that they were ordered in the 1960s before the QOY was even thought of.

From memory the QOH clung on to their antecedent badges for years and even wore the 'sqn' badges at sqn training and the QOY fox at regimental events.
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  #23  
Old 22-02-22, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GriffMJ View Post
....does anyone know if the QOYY wore an NCO Arm Badge? Did the Squadrons wear their old ones?
A reference in the Bulletin of the Military Historical Society dated 1961 states “QOYY Corporals and above wear the Prince of Wales plumes and coronet in white metal above the chevrons”.

Tim
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  #24  
Old 22-02-22, 05:09 PM
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Thanks Tim

I thinks its this one? I have it in as a holder at the moment

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  #25  
Old 22-02-22, 05:32 PM
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0You know "at regimental expense" says a lot. Weve come across this before with other Regiments.
"Can we have? " -Regiment
" No chance,not financially viable" -MOD
" F..K .Y.. then ,we'll get them elsewhere" -Regiment

This would explain the lack of documents and sealed patterns etc. The Regiments went elsewhere for their badge thus circumventing the MOD. Various Yeomanry arm badges were produced in Pakistan because the MOD was counting its beans. This is documented in the DLOY history for definate.
Ive seen a Worcestershire Yeo pear leaf arm badge in anodised aluminium which presumably the MOD wouldnt fund either.
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  #26  
Old 22-02-22, 05:35 PM
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Does the POW feathers arm badge correspond in size and design to any other arm badge ,9/12th Lancers,Royal Hussars possibly ?
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  #27  
Old 22-02-22, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike H View Post
0You know "at regimental expense" says a lot. Weve come across this before with other Regiments.
"Can we have? " -Regiment
" No chance,not financially viable" -MOD
" F..K .Y.. then ,we'll get them elsewhere" -Regiment

This would explain the lack of documents and sealed patterns etc. The Regiments went elsewhere for their badge thus circumventing the MOD. Various Yeomanry arm badges were produced in Pakistan because the MOD was counting its beans. This is documented in the DLOY history for definate.
Ive seen a Worcestershire Yeo pear leaf arm badge in anodised aluminium which presumably the MOD wouldnt fund either.
Mike

Very good point so if this was so the a/a version was the 1960s Regtl badge but with the advent of the QOY the Sqn are told to buy their own metal badges. An about turn on normal practice only a decade before!
The QOY did the same some years later when the issued Fox badge was a/a but their PRI sold metal ones.

Alan
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  #28  
Old 22-02-22, 06:48 PM
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Default QOYY Arn Badge

The QOYY Arm Badge is number 10 on this illustration from the MHS Bulletin. Not sure if the badges are all shown to the same scale but it looks like the larger 9th/12th Lancers type.

Tim
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File Type: jpg 6352F68C-9F0F-4FEF-8172-71BC1C6D6B99.jpg (42.3 KB, 16 views)
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Last edited by grey_green_acorn; 22-02-22 at 06:56 PM.
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  #29  
Old 22-02-22, 06:54 PM
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Default QOYY Collar Badges

These are my QOYY collar badges in white metal and silver anodised.
JSP768 Description: Badge, Organisation, Collar. Soldiers. ‘Y’ Squadron, Queens Own Yorkshire Yeomanry. Aluminium. Anodised silver finish. NSN 8455-99-973-9739 Pattern No 24022

Tim
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File Type: jpg BD2CE796-A893-455D-8454-7EA05E0F16B6.jpg (58.3 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 55D99308-F114-416F-BB65-15A93E2287CF.jpg (48.6 KB, 5 views)
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Last edited by grey_green_acorn; 22-02-22 at 06:59 PM.
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  #30  
Old 22-02-22, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn View Post
The QOYY Arm Badge is number 10 on this illustration from the MHS Bulletin. Not sure if the badges are all shown to the same scale but it looks like the larger 9th/12th Lancers type.

Tim
Tim,

Please could you tell me what it says about No.12 the floriated Fleur de Lys.

regards
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