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#1
31-12-10, 10:05 PM
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Fakes, Reproductions and Unofficial Commissions
Hi Guys,
Here are the more common fakes, reproductions and unofficial commissions that you are likely to come up against in the anodised aluminium arena of cap badge collecting. Collectors need to remember that fakes and reproductions are actually quite rare and that the issue really is with unofficial commissions. A) The Die Cast Fake This example of the West Yorkshire Regiment was produced by the open cast method where molten aluminium was poured into a mould. Obverse detail in this example is poor and with coloured dye splashed all over it looks to be of pretty poor standard. The biggest give away though is the reverse which has a surface that looks like the craters on the moon. Look at the reverse horse head image and you will see what I mean. Slider is also all wrong too as is maker mark character font and size. They did get the actual mark name for the era correct though. I have no evidence of the West Yorkshire Regiment cap badge being officially authorised for issue. No A/A badges were made by casting in any of its forms being the closed or the open methods of die casting. This badge sells for between 25 and 50 pounds. Last edited by hagwalther; 31-12-10 at 10:42 PM. 
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#2
31-12-10, 10:09 PM
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B) The Die Stamped Fake
This example of the 295th Heavy Anti Aircraft Regiment, Royal Artillery (Hampshire Carabiniers Yeomanry) (TA) is commonly encountered on eBay and was manufactured by die stamping. In die stamping a thin sheet of metal is placed between two dies which are then subjected to immense pressure via a single strike which is measured in milliseconds. This method was used to produce the early German combat badges of WWII in tombak and later in zink before other methods were used. Also probably used to produce pre A/A badges but I know nothing about these items and still not clear about how these badges were manufactured. Many commentators on the forum use the term 'die struck' but I have no idea what this is. From the book: In die stamping the sheet metal is formed and as such die stamping is a metal forming process in which the metal outline of the badge is formed by cutting and shaping all by a single action over a pair of dies. Note that the material used is very thin - it has to be to be used by the type of dies used in die stamping. This badge is made of a thin tin type material that bends easily. If it was made of aluminium it would bend even more and would probably be very weak and not able to stand up to service life. Note also the triangle shaped flaw in the rear of one of the rifle butts - is this flaw found in pre A/A badges of this unit? Also note the slider used - this type of slider is commonly found on those badges made by the London Badge and Button Co Ltd which started trading in 1973. I am not going to say LB&B made these in case they get toxic - all I am going to say is that the sliders used on these badges looks very similar to those found on badges marked 'LONDON BADGE AND BUTTON CO LTD'. (See also later). The cap badge of the 295th Heavy Anti Aircraft Regiment, Royal Artillery (Hampshire Carabiniers Yeomanry) (TA) was authorised for issue in A/A but document 54/Gen A/982(Ord.17b) states that this unit wore the badge of the Royal Regiment of Artillery. As such, I do not believe that this badge was ever bulk manufactured. Although no A/A badges were made by die stamping for service issue there is the possibility that a few were made during experimentation in the late 1940's. The likelihood of finding such items though is basically nil. This badge can sell for between 50 and over 100 pounds. Last edited by hagwalther; 31-12-10 at 10:37 PM.
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#3
31-12-10, 10:11 PM
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C) The Buffs Reproduction
What is the difference between a fake and a reproduction? Well a fake is a deliberate attempt to deceive while a reproduction is labelled as such and is based on an item that previously existed. This item stamped 'SMITH & WRIGHT LTD.' on a later type S&W slider also has the letter 'R' stamped on the body under the slider. Not a great give away but a help. Many items sold by the Gurkhas Museum in Winchester have the word 'COPY' stamped to the slider which is an honest attempt to describe what is sold. Slider and maker mark on the badge below are correct for later era S&W badges. I have been tyring to find out who commissioned and sold this badge but the person who knows is basically unreachable by email. This badge was made by the cold die forging process as per all genuine A/A badges. From the book: In cold die forging a previously created badge blank is placed into the obverse badge die which previously had the badges three dimensional design cut or properly known as, sunk into. This is followed up again with a single but this time a slow pressure force of hundreds of tons being applied to it by a reverse or punch die. This result is that the aluminium blank is induced into a plastic state allowing it to flow into all the recesses of the two confined dies. If a fast strike is used as in the die stamping process then the metal would not be given time or the chance to adequately flow into the dies. The speed of strike is also a defining difference between die stamping and cold die forging. By now you will know the difference between die stamping and cold die forging so should be able to distinguish badges made by the two processes and hence throw out dodgy die stamped 'A/A' badges. The Buffs reproduction badge sells for 10 to 25 pounds but the buyer is probably unaware that the badge is a repro. The proper era S&W example with correct earlier era tapering slider sells for about 35 quid. Sorry, no image of the 'R' as camera is currently setup for obverse and reverse images only. Last edited by hagwalther; 01-01-11 at 12:23 AM.
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#4
31-12-10, 10:13 PM
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D) The Marker Marked 14th/20th Kings Hussars LB&B Slider Type Unofficial Commission
I came up with the term unofficial commission to distinguish between an out and out fake and a reproduction being that an unofficial commission was produced by a bone-fide A/A company for someone not related to the official procurement of A/A badges within the War Office or MoD. Usually the badges are of units that were never authorised to be issued the A/A cap badge and are not marked as being a reproduction. These are pretty common and have all the traits of a genuine LB&B badge. The give away here is that I am lead to believe that the gold badge was withdrawn in 1968 while LB&B started trading in 1973. Please put me right if I am wrong with the 1968 date here!!! Last edited by hagwalther; 31-12-10 at 10:41 PM.
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#5
31-12-10, 10:15 PM
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E) The Unmarked LB&B Slider Type Unofficial Commission
The example shown here is that of the Norfolk Yeomanry. I can find no evidence whatsoever that this badge was officially authorised for issue in anodised aluminium. Note the common slider used with the 14th/20th Kings Hussars LB&B above and also check this against examples of the Northumbrian University O.T.C. marked 'LONDON BADGE AND BUTTON CO LTD'. You will see from light pitting on both badges that they even came from the same aluminium sheet that was used to make the badge bodies. Slider dimensions are the same and body sheet aluminium sheet use on both badges has the same thickness and same visual attributes. A cynical person may say that they were made by one and the same company - well, you may think that but I really could not comment... Lots of dodgy examples of badges like these about and the sell under and over 100 pounds. Sometimes come with a hollow or 'mirror' image reverse with fake Firmin and Timings markings. Check for cracked anoidic crust on the slider where the mark has been added after manufacturing and also character fonts and sized that are not found on originals. An example of the Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire (which as far as I can tell was never officially authorised for issue) sold on eBay last week for 89 pounds and came with a dodgy Firmin mark on a slider described and shown here on the Norfolk Yeomanry badge. I'm 99% sure who commissioned and originally sold these and I will say now that I do not believe that it was anyone related to, or is a member of, the forum. Last edited by hagwalther; 01-01-11 at 12:26 AM.
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#6
31-12-10, 10:17 PM
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F) The Gaunt Slider Type Unofficial Commission
All over eBay and thus very common. Made for units that both originally existed and also those that were never authorised for issue. The example shown is that of the later. I can find no information that the Royal Ulster Rifles with Tudor Crown was ever officially authorised for issue but here we have one with a typical unmarked Gaunt slider. There are many different Gaunt sliders but the one shown here on the badge is very common. Note the hollow back appearance of the badge. Good Gaunt badges (with sliders) are flat or may show some degree of following the contours of a badge but here in this example the reverse basically mirrors the obverse. Do not include Gaunt lugged badges of Scottish units here as these are different altogether and worthy of a different thread in their own right - just concentrate on these slider attired examples for now. Not all unmarked slider badges are bad but you do need to be careful and check before paying out big money - again, contact me as required. But I have to say that I think that good unmarked badges were due to someone forgetting to mark them while dodgy unmarked badges are because the maker did not wish to admit to manufacturing them. I have to admit here that I am only 95% all these are dodgy though as a member of the forum states that a badge like it (not the Royal Ulster Rifles (KC)) came from a framed display which was made up in the 1970's. This therefore is a bit of a fly in my particular tub of ointment. Saying that though I believe they were all made in the late 1980's and early 1990's and commissioned and originally sold by the same person who ordered the LB&B Slider Type Unofficial Commission. Last edited by hagwalther; 01-01-11 at 12:28 AM.
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#7
31-12-10, 10:18 PM
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That's about it.
To conclude - there are few fakes and reproductions about but there are lots of unofficial commissions. The cast fakes are easy to spot as are the die stamped items. The unofficial commissions can generally be broken down into the LB&B slider type and the Gaunt slider type so if you recognise these then you will be safe. There are other issues related to the J.R.GAUNT LONDON LTD. (with full stop) marked badges but that is really a different topic altogether. Remember, this was all about dodgy badges with sliders - if you want some information on iffy badges with lugs see: http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=13869 I will be around for a day or so but will then be out of Internet range for a week or more so will answer comments when I can. Regards Chris Last edited by hagwalther; 01-01-11 at 12:28 AM.
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#8
01-01-11, 06:56 PM
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Hi Guys,
I had a PM from a member on the KC Royal Ulster Rifles which is worth repeating here. Question Hi do you have any further information on the Royal Ulster Rifles KC A/A cap badge ? Most collectors I know who collect to this regiment have included one in their collection, even though they suspect it a fake. Answer Thanks for the PM. Basically I know nothing about the badge as I can find no information on it in the List of Changes, CCN or COSA documents, National Archives at Kew etc. While I can never prove something never happened I doubt if this badge in A/A was ever officially authorised for issue. However, I can take things one step further - The QC version in A/A is mentioned in the CCN of 1963 as CB 3111. The document also notes that it replaced items CB 1993 and CB 0373 which the document states were White Metal/Old Pattern respectfully. As such it (the QC A/A badge) by-passed any KC A/A 'version'. The first A/A badge started at CB 3000. Regards Chris
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#9
02-01-11, 03:44 PM
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Hi Chris,
Thank you for this well documented thread. Even if not strictly in my direction, this is a good analysis to improve everybody's knowledge ... well done ! A+Alco
__________________
Alco ............................................o|--}
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#10
03-01-11, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
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#11
03-01-11, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Regards Ry
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#12
03-01-11, 05:21 PM
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Chris,
I look forward to finding out who commissioned all this stuff. It is a leak that would be far more interesting and revealing than the dross that a certain website seems to think I should read in the papers! Matti
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#13
03-01-11, 09:09 PM
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Regarding Royal Ulster Rifles a/a badge I contacted the curator of the museum about 1982 when these and other badges started appearing on certain persons lists at that time he stated this badge was never worn or issued
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#14
04-01-11, 02:10 AM
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Quote:
I too have come to the conclusion that the RUR were not issued an A/A Tudor crown badge. A WM St Edwards crown version was sealed 02/09/1954 [Pattern no. 16420 LC 6453 dated 11/01/1955]. The only other data I know of is the 1963 CCN entry you mention , as you probably know Kipling & King give a sealing date of 13/02/1964 for the A/A St Edwards crown version but no sealing number. Any examples of a Tudor crown A/A badge I have seen appear die stamped. John
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#15
05-01-11, 11:58 PM
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Thanks Guys,
I think it fair to say the KC Royal Ulster Rifles is a dud. I'm on hols at the mo at the beaches here and really out of cell phone and internet range - this is New Zealand after all. When I get back we can go through all those J.R. GAUNT B'HAM badges and also the J.R. GAUNT LONDON LTD (with full stop) items. With this info and the previos stuff we should be around 95% covered but there will still be a few odds and ends about to watch out for. Regards Chris Last edited by hagwalther; 06-01-11 at 12:10 AM.
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