White Metal KOYLI

[MH331]

Can anyone assist with this all white metal KOYLI badge on slider. I have not encountered one before quality is good so starting point is that it is not a copy or restrike but too late for Territorials being on a slider?

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by MH331

Can anyone assist with this all white metal KOYLI badge on slider. I have not encountered one before quality is good so starting point is that it is not a copy or restrike but too late for Territorials being on a slider?

The slider was introduced for the Brodrick cap of 1902, and so predates the TF by 6-years. All white metal was the pattern for a Volunteer Battalion of the regiment. It matched the silver lace of the officers full dress tunics. However, it was also the final pattern in stabrite worn by the regiment before it adopted the unifying badge of the light infantry brigade. To add some muddy water the badge has often been produced in white metal as a restrike to catch collectors unawares. Another factor is that the bugle has no inscribed decor of the type used on the earlier badges.

[Mike H]

Could be from the backend of the Regiments history. Post WW2. The regular Btn would have worn w/m badges prior to the anodised version being issued.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Mike H

Could be from the backend of the Regiments history. Post WW2. The regular Btn would have worn w/m badges prior to the anodised version being issued.

Sorry Mike, ironically I had just been annotating to reflect that fact. In this case what appears to be a tapered slider is a good sign of an older and authentic badge. Nevertheless it’s not a particularly well polished and worn down badge so it’s still possible that it’s not what it seems.

[Luke H]

Not a genuine badge in my belief sorry, Mark.

It has the jelly mould pock mark centre. Often there’s an area of braze to the right of centre where the coil intersects the horn’s bell.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144142296...mis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155711383...mis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256184670...mis&media=COPY

An all GM from a noted eBay repro seller (also has the blob)…

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115729714...mis&media=COPY

You do find undoubtedly genuine Dowler made post-WW2 badges, these are single piece construction and significantly different to the example shown.

I’m yet to see an earlier Volunteers era wm KOYLI, hopefully Dave (Deejayuu) will see this and be able to add.

[MH331]

Thanks all it was £1 so I don’t think I feel that hard done by

[Volunteer Soldier]

I agree with Luke. I have a slider mark Dowler Birmingham badge. Inter alia it has a shorter, thinner slider and the centre rose is significantly different from the badge now on question.

[Deejayuu]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Not a genuine badge in my belief sorry, Mark.

It has the jelly mould pock mark centre. Often there’s an area of braze to the right of centre where the coil intersects the horn’s bell.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144142296...mis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/155711383...mis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256184670...mis&media=COPY

An all GM from a noted eBay repro seller (also has the blob)…

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115729714...mis&media=COPY

You do find undoubtedly genuine Dowler made post-WW2 badges, these are single piece construction and significantly different to the example shown.

I’m yet to see an earlier Volunteers era wm KOYLI, hopefully Dave (Deejayuu) will see this and be able to add.

Cheers Luke, one like this?

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ictureid=19709

Not a brilliant image but i think this is an officers example as the white rose is on a leather backing with typical victorian belt and braces retaining method. I`ll see if i can get a better scan tomorrow.
Cheers, Dave

ps The all wm badge on slider i believe is post WWII. Toby has an example of a silvered badge with the black leather central boss i think is an officers badge, probably volunteers but not certain. The badge i have again, is victorian with the belt and braces retaining method.

[Sonofacqms]

I'm afraid I am generally hopeless at dates, but did not all the regular Light Infantry Regiments post WWII all wear a white metal button with a bugle and the cloth shoulder title was yellow lettering on green.

DCLI, Somerset, Ox & Bucks, HLI, DLI all wore white metal badges, only KOYLI had a bi-metal cap badge, was the white metal badge made to keep in line with the others?

Only an observation.

Rob

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

I'm afraid I am generally hopeless at dates, but did not all the regular Light Infantry Regiments post WWII all wear a white metal button with a bugle and the cloth shoulder title was yellow lettering on green.

DCLI, Somerset, Ox & Bucks, HLI, DLI all wore white metal badges, only KOYLI had a bi-metal cap badge, was the white metal badge made to keep in line with the others?

Only an observation.

Rob

The depots of the light infantry regiments were merged into one in 1948 and retitled as the Light Infantry Brigade Depot. At the same time all the regiments within the new administrative brigade were reduced to one battalion whilst retaining individual insignia. It seems to have been at this stage that KOYLI adopted a white metal version of their badge.

In 1957 there was a wide ranging Defence Review and by 1959 the regiments within the brigade were reduced to four by selective merger (plus the departure of the Oxf & Bucks to the Green Jackets Brigade**) and a common cap insignia, a simple white metal bugle horn, based on an early collar badge was adopted, whilst retaining individual shoulder titles.

In 1968, and as part of a wider army effort to create new large regiments from the administrative brigades, the four, single battalion regiments of the light infantry brigade were merged to create a new regiment, The Light Infantry, wearing the same cap badge, and unifying buttons and shoulder titles. A year later, as a part of yet more military retrenchment, the 4th Battalion LI, formerly the Durham Light Infantry was disbanded, leaving three regular battalions within the LI.

**recreating an arrangement from the Napoleonic Wars.