Buttons as cap badges

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

Without wanting to go too much off-piste from the fascinating subject of the OP, let’s not forget perhaps the most famous of British boy combatants, Jack Cornwell VC. This poor boy was only sixteen when he was thrown into the ‘front line’. Just a child but made of steel and brave as a lion.

JT

Indeed, but as a Boy Seaman he was not in breach of any regulations, though I believe Boy Seamen were later forbidden to serve in action. There were also a few Boy soldiers with the original 1914 B.E.F. I think that they were serving as Drummers, if I remember correctly.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by High Wood

Indeed, but as a Boy Seaman he was not in breach of any regulations, though I believe Boy Seamen were later forbidden to serve in action. There were also a few Boy soldiers with the original 1914 B.E.F. I think that they were serving as Drummers, if I remember correctly.

Agreed, Simon. And that was really my point; the disparity (at that time) in what might be viewed moral/ethical standards between those two branches of the British Forces.

Apologies, Peter, for veering a little off course from the thread’s main topic.

JT

[Peter Brydon]

JT,
Not sure but it might be The Great War Forum or his own research .

P.B.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

JT,
Not sure but it might be The Great War Forum or his own research .

P.B.

Thank you.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

Most interesting information on buttons worn as cap badges . I must admit I thought this was something used as a stopgap when cap badges were in short supply but I seem to remember seeing a GS button with a slider.

Thanks to Taff Gillingham for the information.

P.

Peter,

No idea if this is the same source as Taff Gillingham’s, but this table from Westlake’s ‘Kitchener’s Army’, pp. 164, 165, shows the New Army battalions, their origin and subsequent position in the TR:

E2514215-F743-4765-A28D-5DFBBC99FFE2.jpg F15F9030-77E4-4F1D-98B3-98FDA8932D29.jpg

Not wishing to teach granny to suck eggs, but just to add; Westlake tells us that the reason the TR was brought into existence in the first place was as a result of the large and unmanageable number of new recruits coming into the Army when conscription was introduced in 1916. The existing reserve system was, apparently, unable to cope, hence it’s creation.

JT

[dumdum]

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

Most interesting information on buttons worn as cap badges . I must admit I thought this was something used as a stopgap when cap badges were in short supply but I seem to remember seeing a GS button with a slider.

Thanks to Taff Gillingham for the information.

P.

I have a photo of a dear old Gallipoli man I knew personally that was published in a local newspaper when he was wounded in 1916. The photo was taken before his enlistment and he has a shoulder title worn on his peaked cap where the cap badge should have been!

[dumdum]

Originally Posted by High Wood

Peter,

thank you for the pointer, I clearly hadn't read the first post properly.

My point was that no conscripted young soldier was allowed to serve in the front line before a certain age, I cannot remember if it was 18 or 19. To ease the man power shortage these lads were called up a year early and given training so that they were able to be sent to the front on reaching the legal age.

It always seemed to me to be a rotten trick and explains why so many of the British 1918 casualties were teenagers. They all look so young in the photographs.

It had occured to me that wearing a button as a cap badge would be a good way of distinguishing an underage trainee.

Simon.

If we go back 100 years before WW1 and to the days of Wellington when commissions were bought and sold, what was the youngest age of an ensign?

I've read that great book on the British army ("Soldiers" by Richard Holmes) but the detail has left my dear old brain.....

[Alan O]

Years ago I bought a collection of badges form French ebay and this button came with them. There is a small brass rod soldered on which is liley to be for wear as a cap badge.

The SLI title is psot WW1 but has a substantial piece of metal added to it. No idea why this was done or for wear with what. It was in my Grandfather's collection from the 1940s which he collected in Cowbridge in the war years so it has some age to the modification.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by dumdum

I have a photo of a dear old Gallipoli man I knew personally that was published in a local newspaper when he was wounded in 1916. The photo was taken before his enlistment and he has a shoulder title worn on his peaked cap where the cap badge should have been!

Can you recall which unit your pal was with/which shoulder title he had in his cap? Love those military pics where the rules & regs aren’t quite being adhered to, either through necessity or otherwise.

526ED1EF-2AB4-4DF1-B1CF-C9AFEF157ECF.jpg

JT

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks for all the further comments on this thread.

P.

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by dumdum

The photo was taken before his enlistment and he has a shoulder title worn on his peaked cap where the cap badge should have been!

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

Can you recall which unit your pal was with/which shoulder title he had in his cap?

Would it have been a TR shoulder title ?

From “The Long, Long Trail” website :

The TR units dropped the cap badges and shoulder titles of their former regiments and instead wore a large General Service button on a red disc on the cap and the letters TR as a shoulder title.

The TR shoulder titles were discontinued from June 1917.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army...ining-reserve/


.

[manchesters]

Here is a nice improvised WW1 cap badge worn prior to issue of Regimental badges. Possibly unique and the card its attached to worth its weight in gold.

I believe it to be a municipal collar badge from either Rochdale Corporation or Transport etc.

regards

[Peter Brydon]

The sort of information that makes the study of military insignia such a vast subject and great that it is recorded here.

P.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by manchesters

Here is a nice improvised WW1 cap badge worn prior to issue of Regimental badges. Possibly unique and the card its attached to worth its weight in gold.

I believe it to be a municipal collar badge from either Rochdale Corporation or Transport etc.

regards

That’s extremely interesting Simon. Are there any pictures of them training or in the early days after forming wearing the badge?

If it’s yours is there any chance of a look at the back please.

[manchesters]

Never seen a photo Luke.
Its mine and here is the back of it, clearly hand made.

regards