British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Common Forums > The Home Front

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-05-22, 06:57 AM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,180
Default 1916 badges with bars attached

Hi all

Still intrigued by the appearance of 1916 OWS badges that have bars attached to them and have just acquired this example with the 1917-18 bar.

The other one is a badge I've had for many years.

I'd always entertained the notion that these bars might have been the work of some bored munitionette (or her male friend..) but notice that the numbers are exactly the same, although the "1917" does rise a little off the horizontal.

Of note is that the hyphen is deeply struck on both.

While they must have issued thousands of these badges, I see that these two both have a "B" prefix and are in the 202000 range being 101 numbers apart.

A very quick check of the other half dozen badges I have (plated, enameled or stamped with the owner's name) shows no other badge with a "B" prefix.

The thought does occur, however, that they maybe issued SO many that they did add a "B" to a new run of badges.

All comments and suggestions appreciated!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1916withbars.jpg (33.6 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg 1916withbars1.JPG (36.5 KB, 27 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-05-22, 07:22 AM
Jelly Terror's Avatar
Jelly Terror Jelly Terror is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,306
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdum View Post
Hi all

Still intrigued by the appearance of 1916 OWS badges that have bars attached to them and have just acquired this example with the 1917-18 bar.

The other one is a badge I've had for many years.

I'd always entertained the notion that these bars might have been the work of some bored munitionette (or her male friend..) but notice that the numbers are exactly the same, although the "1917" does rise a little off the horizontal.

Of note is that the hyphen is deeply struck on both.

While they must have issued thousands of these badges, I see that these two both have a "B" prefix and are in the 202000 range being 101 numbers apart.

A very quick check of the other half dozen badges I have (plated, enameled or stamped with the owner's name) shows no other badge with a "B" prefix.

The thought does occur, however, that they maybe issued SO many that they did add a "B" to a new run of badges.

All comments and suggestions appreciated!
The embellishments do look very 'DIY'; my guess is it's a bit of in-house factory, pat-on-the-backery. The badge and add-on fonts differ considerably. Could be you just happened, through pure coincidence, to have acquired two badges issued to girls from the same workplace. Have you ever seen other examples with bars like these attached?

Thanks for showing them.

JT

JT Munitions Worker.JPG

Last edited by Jelly Terror; 09-05-22 at 08:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-05-22, 09:34 AM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 3,239
Talking

Spotted one on eBay a couple of weeks ago , they turn up infrequently but all the ones I've seen have had the exact same style of bar(s).

I think they could be either a 'factory' addition or something made by a local artisan/jeweller . They are possibly a "post service" add-on as I haven't seen any photographic evidence of them being worn on uniforms within factories.

Regarding the numbers , I also think it could be a co-incidence (from same factory ?) as one shown in another thread is numbered 371322.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=87578

The "B" prefix is something I have not seen before and there is no mention of a second run of these badges in Tom Tulloch-Marshall's article , and even if there was , why use a "B" rather than an "A" ?. When the British Legion produced a second (and third) run they had an "A" then an "A1" prefix.

Is it possible that the "B" was added to indicate that the badge had been re-issued ? Didn't re-issued 1915 badges have their original letters ground off and a "J" prefix added ?

Discuss !

.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-05-22, 10:33 AM
High Wood's Avatar
High Wood High Wood is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,062
Default

The cynic in me wonders if someone has worked out that his date bar addition adds considerable value to an otherwise relatively common badge and, is knocking them out in his garden shed.

It seems strange to me that these seem to have come from nowhere and are now appearing frequently on ebay. Which is not to say that there are not genuine modified 'On War Service' badges out there.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-05-22, 11:07 AM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,180
Default

Hi guys

Good to see that this topic still holds our interest.

My badge with two bars soldered on was purchased at least 8 years ago and someone suggested that if they could be put back to their original swing style but decided that it is much more of the era left as it is.

Always possible that there is someone knocking these out so if there are 10 listed next week, let us all know please!

As for the "B" stamp, I notice that there is a slight raised "bump" to the front of the badge as if it was added at a later date. Both are badges by J A Wylie.

I think that the issue numbers were placed on these badges when they were supported in the die that struck them otherwise you would see a deformation to the text on the front.

If placed on a totally flat surface (without the support of a front die) this would surely show up in blurred lettering.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-05-22, 11:32 AM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 3,239
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by High Wood View Post
The cynic in me wonders if someone has worked out that his date bar addition adds considerable value to an otherwise relatively common badge and, is knocking them out in his garden shed.

It seems strange to me that these seem to have come from nowhere and are now appearing frequently on ebay. Which is not to say that there are not genuine modified 'On War Service' badges out there.
It could be that some are recently made but Magpie's one in the other thread was picked up 25 year ago.

As with a lot of badges , once you see one for sale others catch your eye and it appears there are numerous around but it could just be that people are seeing what they are going for and digging them out of their collections.

.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-05-22, 11:38 AM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 3,239
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdum View Post
As for the "B" stamp, I notice that there is a slight raised "bump" to the front of the badge as if it was added at a later date. Both are badges by J A Wylie.

I think that the issue numbers were placed on these badges when they were supported in the die that struck them otherwise you would see a deformation to the text on the front.

If placed on a totally flat surface (without the support of a front die) this would surely show up in blurred lettering.
Remember the leather sand bags .

The initial issue number would have been done with a die but if the "B" was added later (to show re-issue) then it would have probably been done on a factory work bench.

.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-05-22, 04:11 AM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,180
Default

Hi Mike

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about the leather sandbags! I'm interested to hear that the other badge with bars goes back at least 25 years so that more or less puts my mind at rest.

Both of mine have come from sellers who don't/ didn't seem to list other militaria or badges so probably have/had attached no particular significance to them.

I think that the first one was just listed as "1916 badge" and I only viewed it out of curiousity.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:13 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.