Parachute Regiment Cap Badges (It's a puzzlement)

[fougasse1940]

Sealed 25th March 1943, worn from May 1943.

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

[Dave3para]

Thank you for that information. I still have a few friends who served in The Parachute Regiment and Airborne forces in WWII (not many left now and are getting fewer every month) and when the date of issue of the cap bage is discussed there is a difference in opinions as to when it actually happened. Would you know whether the badges were issued to all 12 of the battalions which were formed at that time, at the same time, or were they issued at different times.

[fougasse1940]

Originally Posted by Dave3para

Thank you for that information. I still have a few friends who served in The Parachute Regiment and Airborne forces in WWII (not many left now and are getting fewer every month) and when the date of issue of the cap bage is discussed there is a difference in opinions as to when it actually happened. Would you know whether the badges were issued to all 12 of the battalions which were formed at that time, at the same time, or were they issued at different times.

No, I don't know that, but as these battalions were formed at different times, it would seem rather illogical that they would all receive the badge at the same time?

Rgds,
fougasse1940.

[Dave3para]

By the time that the cap badge was approved and first issued there were 12 battalions in existance. Another 6 battalions were formed after the date of approval, hence my question.

regards

Dave

[Harry Katyn]

I tried uploading this post last night but it appears to have disappeared into the ether so I appologise in advance if there is any duplication.
This is a great thread - very informative!
Below are pictures of a Para Regt KC AA Cap Badge that was one of a small number issued, (in error? instead of the conventional QC version), circa 1981 in Depot Para, Browning Barracks, Aldershot from the QM Stores. The majority were handed back into the stores within a couple of days when the error was noticed. Whether this was because the KC badge was unauthroised or someone realised the money making potential we will never know. (Although I am unaware of the market being flooded with them at that time or since.)
It was rumoured at the time that these badges were part of a consignment of KC badges that had been manufactured in anticipation of the Queens expected abdication following Her silver jubilee to let Charles take the throne.
There is no makers mark anywhere and unfortunately the end of the slider has been snapped off as was the practise at that time to allow the beret to be shaped into a more "ally" style.

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by Harry Katyn

I tried uploading this post last night but it appears to have disappeared into the ether so I appologise in advance if there is any duplication.
This is a great thread - very informative!
Below are pictures of a Para Regt KC AA Cap Badge that was one of a small number issued, (in error? instead of the conventional QC version), circa 1981 in Depot Para, Browning Barracks, Aldershot from the QM Stores. The majority were handed back into the stores within a couple of days when the error was noticed. Whether this was because the KC badge was unauthroised or someone realised the money making potential we will never know. (Although I am unaware of the market being flooded with them at that time or since.)
It was rumoured at the time that these badges were part of a consignment of KC badges that had been manufactured in anticipation of the Queens expected abdication following Her silver jubilee to let Charles take the throne.
There is no makers mark anywhere and unfortunately the end of the slider has been snapped off as was the practise at that time to allow the beret to be shaped into a more "ally" style.

Harry,
I have one of these KC anodised badges too, with a complete blank slider although my story for it's manufacture is a little less romantic! The slider is typical of the LB&B Co. I think it is a fake made for the collectors market? Perhaps a mix up with badges bought via the PRI chain?

Sorry that I cannot provide an image, mine is behind glass!

Andy

[Harry Katyn]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Harry,
I have one of these KC anodised badges too, with a complete blank slider although my story for it's manufacture is a little less romantic! The slider is typical of the LB&B Co. I think it is a fake made for the collectors market? Perhaps a mix up with badges bought via the PRI chain?

Sorry that I cannot provide an image, mine is behind glass!

Andy

I was stationed in the depot at the time these badges were issued and was able to swop a QC version with one of the guys that had been issued a KC one before he had to return it to the stores. Dont remember seeing any KC badges in the PRI at that time - but who is to know? I wasnt able to find the source of the badges at the time or more importantly where they ended up!!

[castagain]

Here's the KC example I've got in my collection. Voided crown, slight curvature to the wings. Regards, Donovan

[hagwalther]

Originally Posted by Harry Katyn

I tried uploading this post last night but it appears to have disappeared into the ether so I appologise in advance if there is any duplication.
This is a great thread - very informative!
Below are pictures of a Para Regt KC AA Cap Badge that was one of a small number issued, (in error? instead of the conventional QC version), circa 1981 in Depot Para, Browning Barracks, Aldershot from the QM Stores. The majority were handed back into the stores within a couple of days when the error was noticed. Whether this was because the KC badge was unauthroised or someone realised the money making potential we will never know. (Although I am unaware of the market being flooded with them at that time or since.)
It was rumoured at the time that these badges were part of a consignment of KC badges that had been manufactured in anticipation of the Queens expected abdication following Her silver jubilee to let Charles take the throne.
There is no makers mark anywhere and unfortunately the end of the slider has been snapped off as was the practise at that time to allow the beret to be shaped into a more "ally" style.

Hi Harry,

I have the same badge as you with the main identifying factor being the parachute rigging not reconciling properly with the canopy. I obtained mine with a large collection of A/A badges at the cost of approx. 1.20 pounds each in an antique shop in the Tinakori Road in Wellington. It came with a few very dodgy unmarked Gaunt slider badges but also some very rare items too that made my eyes almost fall out of my head when I saw them. At $NZ4 each I could not get the money out of my pocket fast enough regardless of the fact that undoubtedly dodgy badges were in with the rest and I believe this KC para to be very iffy indeed.

In all the documentation that I have been through I can find no information on a KC Parachute Regiment A/A cap badge and while it is impossible to prove something never happened I would be very surprised if such official authorisation was found.

The date 1981 and the KC replacing the QC is a bit of a long bow to draw as the British Army works on a maintenance basis of issuing stores and in the case of cap badges existing stock is always used up before new is ordered. As such, there would be no reason whatsoever to spend money on design, new dies and tooling etc. just in case a crown change was to take place in the future.

From where I stand and on the information I have seen and own I have to categorically state that I believe that all KC Parachute Regiment A/A badges are duds. Why yours turned up where it did I have no idea but I would be extremely surprised if it came through official channels.

Regards

Chris

[JON188]

In relation to a KC A/A capbadge being issued, i can wholly believe it.
In my collecting sphere, there have been a mutlitude of unofficial, but sqn issued sqn/troop patches.
Not through OFFICIAL supply chains,but worn none the less by the lads, and then issued for leaving presents etc.
Just because it isnt in a book or official manual somewhere does not make it dud.
This kind of thinking will negate collectors the chance of obtaining good quality originally worn scarce items for their collections.
Be open minded,but NOT naive is my point.
If a collector stipulates that he got a capbadge at depot, then i believe him.,
Just my forpenneth for what it is worth.
It makes collecting more interesting of course with all of the different types around,.
Regards
Jon

[tynesideirish]

Originally Posted by Dave3para

Thank you for that information. I still have a few friends who served in The Parachute Regiment and Airborne forces in WWII (not many left now and are getting fewer every month) and when the date of issue of the cap bage is discussed there is a difference in opinions as to when it actually happened. Would you know whether the badges were issued to all 12 of the battalions which were formed at that time, at the same time, or were they issued at different times.

Dave, I cannot speak for the other Bn's but the 5th Parachute Bn [*Later 5th Bn The Parachute Regiment] Formed from 7th Bn Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders on 17th July 1942 did not convert to the Maroon Machine and now famous Parachute Regiment badge until September 1944. They wore a Balmoral with AAC badge on diamond of Hunting Stewart.

*On 1st August 1942 with the establishment of the Parachute Regiment, all Parachute Bn's were redesignated as members of that regiment.

[2747andy]

Originally Posted by JON188

In relation to a KC A/A capbadge being issued, i can wholly believe it.
In my collecting sphere, there have been a mutlitude of unofficial, but sqn issued sqn/troop patches.
Not through OFFICIAL supply chains,but worn none the less by the lads, and then issued for leaving presents etc.
Just because it isnt in a book or official manual somewhere does not make it dud.
This kind of thinking will negate collectors the chance of obtaining good quality originally worn scarce items for their collections.
Be open minded,but NOT naive is my point.
If a collector stipulates that he got a capbadge at depot, then i believe him.,
Just my forpenneth for what it is worth.
It makes collecting more interesting of course with all of the different types around,.
Regards
Jon

Jon,
patches are easily obtained and can be embroidered to order in small numbers! When it comes to Cap Badges the cost to produce them is far greater.. I agree that this KC anodised badge is unusual and would be of interest to an Airborne or Anodised collector. As I said I have one too!

I have a huge problem when they fall into the possession of dealers and are then sold for vast amounts!

I feel that there is another reason these badges were floating around Aldershot. Perhaps made for the museum or for use as props in a WW2 film (Paras used quite often for this) or a similar reason! they probably got into the QM chain or taken from the wrong shelf or cupboard and issued to Joe Crow!

I do not for one minute believe that they were made "Just in Case" the Queen decided to do a runner!

Andy

[Alan O]

One option is that London badge and Button sent the 'wrong' badges to the MOD and mixed up their MOD-ordered Q/C badges with the K/C ones commissioned by another party for the collectors' market.

[Mike H]

From the photos published they arent the same as the die stamped fake anodised badges

[William]

Couple of images here of a 100% genuine and authentic KC Parachute Regiment Agonised Ally cap-badge, with slider marked 'Firmin London'

The person who sold me this told me he knows it to be 100% original because it belonged to his great grandmother's best mate, who got it from the woman who starred as a stand-in for the tall thin bloke in the remake of "A Bridge Too Far". Possibly.

Further proof of the badge's authenticity, if more is needed, is that it has been in my own personal collection for more than ten years.