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  #16  
Old 29-01-13, 06:35 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Phil,
it a fantasy item and not based on anything genuine! Take it back and argue your case! As for the slider shape this only applies to anodised aluminum badges made by Gaunt.

Andy
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  #17  
Old 29-01-13, 06:40 PM
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Cheers Andy, obliged to you, maybe an excuse to get PJ out, he can be back up

Cheers,

Phil
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Last edited by Phil2M; 29-01-13 at 07:47 PM.
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  #18  
Old 29-01-13, 06:43 PM
Charlie585 Charlie585 is offline
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Hi Gents,

Sorry to hijack this thread Phil and good luck with returning the badge.

Whilst the subject of this type of Gaunt slider has raised its head and due to me not yet being in possession of Chris's book.

Can anyone please enlighten me to the period of use for these sliders, are they associated with late period badges including 70s / 80s Gaunt restrikes or where they also found on early Gaunt Anodised badges from the 50s.

Ry
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  #19  
Old 29-01-13, 06:46 PM
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Go ahead, mate, I think my query has reached a logical conclusion.

Cheers, Ry.

Phil
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  #20  
Old 29-01-13, 06:52 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Ry,
lets see it Chris posts an extract from the book, but he seems to think they are post 1980!

Andy
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  #21  
Old 29-01-13, 07:23 PM
Charlie585 Charlie585 is offline
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Thanks Andy,

I thought against hope that this was most probably the case.

Regards

Ry
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  #22  
Old 01-02-13, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2747andy View Post
Phil,
I think you have a total fantasy item, the rifles might be original but badges with this large crown are all reproduction items in my honest opinion!

Andy
I rarely disagree with you Andy, but I don't think a badge with a large crown is necessarily a fake. I have mentioned before in a similar discussion that such badges were worn as part of the badge of rank prior to 1915 when large crowns were used for the rank below QMS. Unlike many other regiments the the Sch of Musketry had long had the crossed rifles and crown conjoined as part of their badges of appointment. I saw plenty of photos proving this in the small arms museum at Warminster. Badges of that nature with loops are usually genuine but those with a slider (to make it look like a cap badge) are generally re-strikes or incorrectly repaired.
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  #23  
Old 01-02-13, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby Purcell View Post
I rarely disagree with you Andy, but I don't think a badge with a large crown is necessarily a fake. I have mentioned before in a similar discussion that such badges were worn as part of the badge of rank prior to 1915 when large crowns were used for the rank below QMS. Unlike many other regiments the the Sch of Musketry had long had the crossed rifles and crown conjoined as part of their badges of appointment. I saw plenty of photos proving this in the small arms museum at Warminster. Badges of that nature with loops are usually genuine but those with a slider (to make it look like a cap badge) are generally re-strikes or incorrectly repaired.
Hi Toby,

That is mine then, will go back to the shop tomorrow.

Cheers,

Phil
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  #24  
Old 01-02-13, 07:24 PM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Toby,
a fair point, as a cap badge collector I would not deny that other forms were worn as sleeve badges etc, but the crown that appears on these badges is a "Howler" and I've seen too many to think that it is anything other than a repro!

Andy
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  #25  
Old 02-02-13, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2747andy View Post
Toby,
a fair point, as a cap badge collector I would not deny that other forms were worn as sleeve badges etc, but the crown that appears on these badges is a "Howler" and I've seen too many to think that it is anything other than a repro!

Andy
Yes I was not disagreeing that Phil's example is a repro, just that not all 'large crown' versions are as you seemed to be suggesting.
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  #26  
Old 02-02-13, 01:07 AM
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http://militarybadgecollection.com/w...%20%281%29.JPG

http://militarybadgecollection.com/w...%20%282%29.JPG
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  #27  
Old 02-02-13, 05:48 AM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Tom, thanks for adding the links, this is an example of the Large Crowned "Fantasy" badge I was refering to! With it's Rings in place of pearls on the arms of the crown! 100% Mickey Mouse IMO! They come lugged, slidered and in a range of metals, all furnished to con collectors!!

Andy
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  #28  
Old 02-02-13, 11:23 AM
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Those are the First Class Staff Sergeant upper part of badges of rank and appointment worn between 1902 and 1915. They were introduced for wear with SD and KD and to replace the bullion badges previously worn on Home Service Frocks. They are not cap badges. The Sch of Musky (later SA Sch) was a tiny organisation and in militaria terms these badges fall into the unusual and obscure badges category. However, there are photos of instructors wearing them in the archives of the small arms museum at Warminster.

The crown was large, just as Line Infantry Colour Sergeants crowns were large at that time. This did not change until 1915, when new badges of rank for Warrant Officer Second Class and Company Quartermaster Sergeant were introduced, utilising the large crown for the former and a new (smaller) crown for the latter. These changes also affected the badges of rank for the Sch of Musky and AGymS.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 02-02-13 at 11:48 AM.
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  #29  
Old 02-02-13, 11:33 AM
2747andy 2747andy is offline
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Toby,
this is one we'll have to agree to disagree on, I think they are 100% fake! Here are two genuine badges put together, a large WOs crown and crossed rifles, look at the detail on the rifles then compare them to the monstrosity shown in Tom's links, such as the base of the magazines, sights, triggers and guards and the sling fittings, all a 100% knock off!

Andy
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File Type: jpg DSCF1002 (3).jpg (63.4 KB, 29 views)

Last edited by 2747andy; 02-02-13 at 11:52 AM.
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  #30  
Old 02-02-13, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2747andy View Post
Toby,
this is one we'll have to agree to disagree on, I think they are 100% fake!

Andy
There are indeed many restrikes of them from the original dies.
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