Manchester badge

[Jibba Jabba]

Could someone please explain the significance of lugs on a Manchester regt badge, I always thought they should have a slider?

Also can someone please confirm the exact style of lug as used on Manchester Pals shoulder titles, namely the 24th Battalion.

I own such a title and my example has canadian style lugs made from cut copper plate. I am wondering if these are correct?

Thank you.

[Luke H]

All cap badges were lugged prior to circa 1906 when sliders are generally considered to have started to come in. The slider then became the standard method of attachment for most badges. Such badges that were later slidered usually have their early lugged versions referred to as 'victorian' badges by dealers although this isn't strictly accurate but it gives them an excues to jack the price up.

Notwithstanding that some badges were always lugged such as Royal Scots Fusiliers, pugree examples of certain badges aside.

[KLR]

Lugs - or loops to give them their official name - were used on badges made for the FSC until 1903. They gave way to long sliders (ie those seen on HPCs) - or 'vertical shanks to give them their official name -used on badges for wear in the new (but unpopular) Brodrick cap. In 1906 they were ordered to be shortened as they were too long for the new peaked service dress caps.

BUT , apart from Scots etc badges that Luke mentions, loops were still on badges worn on the FSC which continued to be worn in India long after 1903 - in fact they made a come back for home troops in the 1930s (ie the FSC and loops often on TA badges of that period).

(all in the ACD records at Kew)

(Luke, I've been interested in what I've read here of the Manch Pals badges. Can you remind me what Bns of the Manch Rgt they were and when they were formed. I'll see what the ACD has to say about their badges)

[Luke H]

1st Manchester Pals (16th Battalion, Manchester Regiment)
2nd Manchester Pals (17th Battalion, Manchester Regiment)
3rd Manchester Pals (Clerks' and Warehousemen's Battalion) (18th Battalion, Manchester Regiment)
4th Manchester Pals (19th Battalion, Manchester Regiment)
5th Manchester Pals (20th Battalion, Manchester Regiment)
6th Manchester Pals (21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment)
7th Manchester Pals (22nd Battalion, Manchester Regiment)

http://www.1914-1918.net/mancs.htm gives information on battalion formation dates, subsequent divisional placements and fates.

Luke

[Jibba Jabba]

Thank you for the information gentleman. I was getting worried after examining a forum members web site on the subject of badges of the manchester regiment in regards to the fact that he only appears to have one example in his huge collection which is lugged.

[harribobs]

Originally Posted by Luke Halls

1st Manchester Pals (16th Battalion, Manchester Regiment)
2nd Manchester Pals (17th Battalion, Manchester Regiment)
3rd Manchester Pals (Clerks' and Warehousemen's Battalion) (18th Battalion, Manchester Regiment)
4th Manchester Pals (19th Battalion, Manchester Regiment)
5th Manchester Pals (20th Battalion, Manchester Regiment)
6th Manchester Pals (21st Battalion, Manchester Regiment)
7th Manchester Pals (22nd Battalion, Manchester Regiment)

http://www.1914-1918.net/mancs.htm gives information on battalion formation dates, subsequent divisional placements and fates.

Luke

Luke

you have omitted the 8th City Battalion (to give them the correct name) which was the 23rd Battalion MR and the 24th Battalion MR the Oldham Comrades

the 3rd city bttn wasn't really the Clerks' and Warehousemen's Battalion, The clerks and warehousemen comment appeared in a newspaper advert to start the recruiting drive



none of the pals battn are refered to as such

going back to the original question, KLR has it spot on as far as i can see, we have come across lugged WW1 bimetal (standard coat of arms) badges but suspect they were old stock or reservists badges. The pals lugged non voided badge seems only to have been used for the original pals, they are rarely seen on late war photos ( same can be said of the 'City' shoulder titles)

chris

[Alan O]

If I might say that is a lovely example of an Edwardian badge.

Harribobs

good to see you back as the resident Manchester enthusiast if only to envy at your Pals collection once again.

One badge that has not been mentioned in this post is the solid bi-metal version. Most people are content that the all brass lugged one was a private order for the Manchester Pals (hence Harribobs early war comment) before official issue came in. However the solid bi-metal one is described as Pals, service Bn and even Pals Officers?

Anyone have any new thoughts on them?

Alan

[harribobs]

Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba

Can someone please confirm the exact style of lug as used on Manchester Pals shoulder titles, namely the 24th Battalion.

I own such a title and my example has canadian style lugs made from cut copper plate. I am wondering if these are correct?

Thank you.

unfortunately mine are mounted and framed but i'm 90% sure that they are the cut copper plate style, i've seen 3 separate examples IIRC

[jeanpit-frenchy]

below my 2 city manchester

[Jibba Jabba]

Thank you for the replies gentlemen.

Harribobs is always great to hear from regimental experts in the field of badges, there is no one better equiped to provide solid information.

Jeanpit thank you for the photo, my badge has the different style of lugs than yours.

The 24th Title seams to be getting a little expensive, near 100 pounds just for one example. I`m really happy that my example is not messed about with

[Diehard]

Hi,

I was after a bit of info on this badge. Its bronzed with 2 blades and very small, 32mm h x 26mm w.

I believe this is an Officers cap badge of the 2nd Batt Manchester regt.

Is anyone able to confirm this ? What dates would it have been worn
and is it for a forage cap ?

Hope the photo upload works

[harribobs]

it is a forage/fatigue cap badge and they were also worn as collar dogs , it is refered to as a Brunswick Star and it's roots are the 2nd battalion and the 96th

but having said that, the example you have would have been either a 1st battn or a general issue as the 2nd battn stars are named as such



dogs

[mgc]

In what period were these badges used?

[Diehard]

Cheers Chris (& thanks Alan for the pointer).

I'm guessing this was probably worn between the wars then, as the later collars were fleur-de-lys.

I will try and get hold of book covering collar dogs - see if theres anything in there.

I'll be keeping my eye open for a 2nd Batt example.

[harribobs]

Originally Posted by mgc

In what period were these badges used?

the design originated in the 96th, these are later obviously, they were worn on mess jackets and FSD in the early period of the regiment predominantly in the 2nd battalion upto the boer war but we've seen them worn as cap badges in WW1

IMHO one of the best badges produced

imperial crown version (solid silver)