books

[boots and saddles]

Here is your proof that these books are too costly for the average collector, and this is one of the cheaper ones. There are just too many that you need. You would have no money left to buy badges. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

[Bwetdude]

One should make a compendium on Canadian Badges...........

With the digital presses these days, it shouldn't cost too much.

But One should have access to ALL the badges....

One is sadly not me... Even if One I'd like to be.

[Bill A]

A Canadian version of Kipling and King would be a landmark reference, but I don't think the market would support it. Even a digital version.
Note the problem with the second edition of the Charlton CEF books. Chris Brooker indicated that the text was completed a couple of years ago, but the books don't seem to be any closer to publication.
We certainly need some references, and I think the Forum CEF gallery and Badge Index fits the bill. Unfortunately, it is not the same thing as a book.

[jim a]

I know that reference books are expensive but they are an essential part of a collectors hobby. I think they make the hobby 10 times more enjoyable. If I see a badge somewhere it gives me alot of pleasure to research it, check for restrike, check value of it etc. even if I don't acquire it. Books, auction catalogues , regimental histories and yes, even this forum are all brought into play. Alot of good books can be aquired on Ebay for a decent price if you have patience. (IT'S WHERE YOU CAN FIND OUT OF PRINT EDITIONS ALSO).

[marway_Jaime]

We have copies of Darby's books in the store (4 volumes have been printed so far), and at this time there is no other reference like them out there for the collector. At the price listed it's a good value, esp. with the pictures being in colour. It costs good money to print now a days and even more to print in colour.
What's the saying? "You can go broke buying reference books, but you can go broke faster without them?" Something like that. It only takes being burned once on a high priced item, to find the value in books, and finding that rare deal will pay for the books if you stumble across one.

Jaime
marway-militaria.com

[army outfitters]

Lets see now, following the logic that books are too expensive perhaps we can look back in the not too distant past and think of a country that banned books, put all the educated and literate people into work/death camps and destroyed the whole country after renaming it. Millions died.
I know this is a bit of a stretch but lets be realistic here. Books are an invaluable resource when it comes to collecting. Be it coins, stamps, miltiaria(god forbid) or even cars. You name it there is probably a collectors reference for it. The tree did not die in vain. It has a purpose once the chain saws cut it down. That book can save your behind when it comes collecting. Yes forums such as this are a great reference and I check it all the time to learn something new,there are other resources but of course they are not free.
Anyways just my two cents after tax.
Dave

[boots and saddles]

Right, and if I could afford them I would have everyone. After tax of course.

[WJ Miller]

Jaime,

Since you are selling copies of the book, can you give us a review of the books content (ie; usefulness). Are the pictures actual photos of the shoulder titles or illustrations. Are they good quality illustrations? IS there any additional notes or text related to construction and varieties of titles or is the book a basic checklist.

I don't think $40 is too much to pay for a comprehensive reference book, most new hardcovers (fiction and on-fiction) are more than that. What's the saying? "Fore-armed is fore-warned". As Bill A pointed out, the market for esoteric references such as this making publishing small quantities very cost prohibitive, even with digital printing...

As an example, I recently I scanned pages/artwork and re-created a research copy of a rare book for a genealogical society. Two copies, 104 pages colour (digital), wire bound = $162.00. That was just to print and bind, not including my considerable time (which I donated in trade for genealogical research) to scan, correct, typeset, format... publishing is an expensive proposition with little profit (unless your pumping out Harry Potter books).

[servicepub]

Originally Posted by WJ Miller

... publishing is an expensive proposition with little profit...

Tell me about it. I have published over 45 titles in less than 15 years and have still to make a profit. If it weren'tfor the satisfaction of seeing a book come to completion I would have given it up years ago.
As to $40 for a book.. BUY IT NOW 'cause that's cheap.

Clive
aka servicepub
aka Service Publications

[boots and saddles]

Then I can assume Clive you haven't sold many or at least not enough to make a profit.

[servicepub]

Originally Posted by boots and saddles

Then I can assume Clive you haven't sold many or at least not enough to make a profit.

The challenge is in publishing books on Canadian topics. It is already a very narrow-interest market (not made any easier by the reluctance of Canadian collectors to buy books), the need to publish a large number of books in order to bring the unit price down and the costs involved in runing a business (credit card charges, internet site, business taxes, etc...)

All in all it makes a 'hobby-business' the most accurate oxymoron.

[WJ Miller]

...publishing in Canada is a tough row to hoe.

I saw some stats on line that show that the average print run for non-fiction books in Canada is about 1500. And sales over a two year period are at best 60%... for small publishers it's worse, averaging well under 50%.

WIth those kind of numbers you're not ever going to make any money as a publisher or an author. DId you knwo if you sell more than 5000 copies of a book in Canada you are a best seller!?

Coincidentally I have been rereading CP Stacey's biography, "A date with history". He mentions that the Historical Section's first volume of WW2 history after the war, the summary "Canadian Army 1939-1945", published in 1948 sold 15,040 copies by 1955. As the first official narrative, Stacey had a ready made audience in veterans as well as probably every Library in the country at that time. Stacey doesn't mention the sales figures for the later major volumes; "Six Years of War", "The Canadians in Italy", "The Victory Campaign" and "Arms, Men & Governments". All except the latter probably sold similar numbers over the decades of the 50's and 60's and are commonly found in libraries. That fourth volume came out in 1970, probably far too long after the war to be of that much interest, particularly since it dealt with policy and not campaigns. "Arms" is a far more scarce book.

Stacey says, "as a rule you do not make much money out of writing history, especially Canadian History; your satisfaction comes in other ways. ...out of my more solemnly scholarly writings I have made about enough to pay expenses, with a little bit over."

And that was back when people actually read books.

[Bill A]

And, Stacey was a class act. He was a historian in the true sense of the word. It is interesting that his and Nicholson's official histories of WW2 were so good that it is only the last 20 years that there have been some serious critiques of Canadian operations in the war.
To the issue of the thread. It is unlikely that the Canadian market will support more than one published reference on a badge collecting area. First come, first always. Look at Babin's catalogue...it is still the standard reference, errors and all. Mazeas carved out the definitive reference for 1920-1950 badges, but as the Forum is showing the errors are numerous and in need of at least a second edition, or a new reference. But, the reference that is needed, like a Kipling and King, may be beyond the ability of the market to support. And, the critical collectors' market is very hard on anything less than perfect research and presentation. It is a hard one to compile and publish books that are sliced and diced by collectors, especially after the author asked for the collecting community's input and assistance.

[boots and saddles]

Yes Bill ,you cannot sell enough books to make money on it & sometimes it's hard to break even, So what is the answer, charge less & sell a few more or Charge a lot & sell to a few..Honestly I would say that by doing the latter you will miss about 95% of collectors, but half of these wouldn't buy anyway ,no matter what the price. I do agree that starting out from scratch a reference book is necessary. When I first started out I burrowed from the kids to buy some of my badges so how on earth could I buy a reference book.
But that's the breaks.

[boots and saddles]

Originally Posted by Bwetdude

One should make a compendium on Canadian Badges...........

With the digital presses these days, it shouldn't cost too much.

But One should have access to ALL the badges....

One is sadly not me... Even if One I'd like to be.

A bit of a poet eh? Ray