Siberian Expeditionary Force?

[cefguy]

All:
I have here a set of shoulders in brass and an SEF cap badge in white metal. I have always felt that the shoulders were to the Siberian Expeditionary Force, but when I came to look that up I am unable to find a reference. Is there someone out there who could help me identify the shoulders and equally important steer me towards a reference.
Thank you
Don

[Bill A]

Hi Don, I have never seen the beaver shoulders attributed to the CSEF. They look a bit police to me. Interesting that the CSEF badge is plated.

[redman]

Hi Don
Did the shoulders come with the Siberian cap badge, when you purchased them?
Dan

[cefguy]

Dan:
No they came from different sources. I didn't do that well. I really also should have just described the cap badge better. I was actually hoping for thoughts on the cap as well without doing a separate post. I believe that the cap is of white metal. I don't think it was plated. If it was plated it was done before the lugs were attached. In any event I was wondering if anyone had come across this treatment for an SEF cap, and of course if anyone could identify the shoulders. I am not sure where I got the idea that the shoulders were linked to the SEF.
Don

[Bill A]

Hi Don, I don't see any sterling marks on the CSEF badge, which are listed for officers. I wonder if plated ones were worn by officers or senior nco's?

[cefguy]

Bill:
I wondered that as well. Could it have been a band badge? The conventional reference (Charltons) for he CEF officers' cap badge shows us that it should have a larger maple leaf superimposed on the curl of the horn. I do not have one of those badges, and admit that I have never had the pleasure of seeing one. I do hope that one of those caps will come forward for the new book. I am sure that there are a few of those "large leaf" badges lurking in some of those amazing CEF collections that exist around the world.
I also need to clarify the difference between a plated badge and a white metal badge. To me they are two very different entities, although sometimes difficult to distinguish. I suppose I might have to get the grinder out again to determine beyond doubt which one this cap is. In examining this particular badge under magnification you can see that (contrary to what I said above) that the lugs were coated or plated with a silver colour after being attached and half of that coating is worn off to expose the copper. That said there are a few dings on the front of the badge that I thought should have revealed a darker base colour underneath. The fact is that there is no copper or brass showing through which leads me to believe that the badge was stamped out of some kind of white metal blank. In any event this cap is like a lot of CEF items it leaves me with more questions than answers.
Don

[Bill A]

Hi Don, I have some druthers about that pattern with the larger maple leaf, but like you I have not had the pleasure of examining one.
Thanks for the further information on your example. I don't think that would be a band badge, but?

[8Hussar]

Don,
I'm not sure that I would give up on the badge as being an officer's badge because it lacks the sterling mark or the size of the leaf. I've attached my officer's set (with sweetheart pin) attributed to LCol Swift. The only badges marked sterling are the collars although the CANADA titles sure look sterling.

[cefguy]

8Hussar:
That is a really impressive grouping and to have provenance on it as well is a true bonus. I believe that my badge is white metal and not silver or silver plate. If you squint really hard at the picture of the back of my badge at about the 16:30 position you can see that somebody (not me) scratched it probably to assess whether or not it was silver. The thing about this one is that it does not leave a trail on paper and the fact that it has retained its glossy shine tells me that it is probably white metal. In any event I find it interesting that your Officers' cap badge is the standard small leaf variety. That to me is valuable information. To change gears here are you at all familiar with the shoulders pictured. That is to say the beavers over Canada? Still trying to nail down a home for these items in the collection.
Thank you
Don

[8Hussar]

Don,
Your beaver over Canada sure looks like the same beaver and Canada as my 247 title. Maybe a variety withour the number? I've included the 240 title as that could be an option as well (and it was in the same drawer)
Gary

[cefguy]

Gary:
Thank you for posting the pics. I agree they sure look like they came off of the same work bench.
Don