Leeds Rifles Badges - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Keith Blakeman · #1 14-02-08, 08:14 PM

For a territorial badge surely the most common has to be the 8th Leeds Rifles, the are thousands of them doing the rounds but getting a good one has been difficult. I think I now have one but it doesn't conform to the books. I'm not bothered by that as similarly 17th London badges vary in style and I also have a similar situation with the 7th Leeds which I'll post later.

The one I would like is on offer at £30 here but it's more than I'm willing to pay, unfortunately I'm not able to get a large view of the front for comparison.

http://firstlight-militaria.co.uk/photos/headre177.jpg

Here are two of mine. 1a&b are my older badge which could be OK but something is nagging me about that slider, it's just too different from all the others. Also the stamping isn't that deep made all the worse by a heavy coating. I have a couple with lugs which also suffer from this

2a&b is the new arrival. The wear and paint finish look correct, the slider is 'normal' but the usual upper void above the cross arm and crown is filled in but it does have a distinctive lined finish. I'm not put off the the area above the slider at the rear, it was covered in white flux residue which I had to wash off to check if the slider wasn't a replacement. The flux has attacked the blacking. I think this is a good badge despite the books all showing fully voided versions.

Alan O · #2 14-02-08, 08:21 PM

Keith,

I have a non voided version which I will photgraph for you. It is a superb example and genuine i.m.o.

Alan

Keith Blakeman · #3 14-02-08, 08:25 PM

Here's the 7th Leeds for comparison, but the complete opposite. 1a&b is as it is illustrated in the books with an infill between the cross arm and crown. 2a&b is voided but the crimped slider and strengthening loops convince me that this badge is also fine.

dragonz18 · #4 14-02-08, 09:12 PM

Keith ,
that slider( 8th 1b) looks much like the ones used on the 'Morrison' Re-strikes of the 70's.
Genuine family-inherited origional dies used for new strikings, with his own version of the slider ( long & tapering ).
Cheers !
Steve

Keith Blakeman · #5 14-02-08, 09:17 PM

Steve,

I've heard you mention them before. Can you expand a bit and were they mainly found on rare badges?

Sonofacqms · #6 14-02-08, 10:07 PM

These are always the most difficult to ascertain whether original or restrike.
The first 8th W. Yorks badge with the tapering slider I do not like for the reason of the taper, always suspect as a restrike of 1970's vintage.
The second looks as though it could have had a new slider and been re-blacked, but that's just a guess.

Keith Blakeman · #7 14-02-08, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

These are always the most difficult to ascertain whether original or restrike.
The first 8th W. Yorks badge with the tapering slider I do not like for the reason of the taper, always suspect as a restrike of 1970's vintage.
The second looks as though it could have had a new slider and been re-blacked, but that's just a guess.

The paint finish to the slider and badge are the same. It just looks a bit messy where the flux has attacked the blacking.

dragonz18 · #8 15-02-08, 05:56 AM

Keith,
the details, if I remember them correctly now.......
An example of these was supplied to a well known local collector & friend of mine, by a contact of his in the UK at the time, in the 1970's.Can refreash these details ,if required.
The gentleman concerned was a certain Mr. Morrisson, hence the term used here, who inherited a good deal of origional dies (both front & back it seems,as back impression is crisp also) from his Grandfather's estate. He proceeded to remake badges from these, but luckily for us (probably unluckily for him?), he had sliders made that differed from origionals,quite long & tapering.These badges(all sorts, I believe,including some hard to find items) are extremely well made & strong, but some were made in metals that were not used origionally for them. All brass & all w/m ,etc.
He was challenged ,about their legality by a local(?) militaria society at that time & I believe that the 'powers that be' ruled that untill they were accepted by the Military ,they remained the property of the manufacturer concerned.Or something like that. So to them ,he was not breaking any laws?
This may be the basis of similar claims used on Ebay,etc. but would suspect that most modern copies are now made from newer dies ,or centrifugal casting ,or similar modern processes.Often with indistinct back impressions.
I have a few examples......All Brass 17L,Lanc fuslrs,Welsh fuslrs,& possibly a couple of others also. Could post pics at a later time ,if required, but are just like your 1st badge.
Hope this helps ?

Cheers !
Steve

Keith Blakeman · #9 15-02-08, 08:37 AM

Thanks Steve,

I wonder if these 'long tapered sliders' are those refered to by Laurie Archer in the restrike section of KK Vol.2? My guess is they are due to their distinctiveness.

Alan O · #10 15-02-08, 12:01 PM

This is mine and a 7th/8th as well.

Alan

Keith Blakeman · #11 15-02-08, 02:02 PM

Both nice looking badges Alan, I'd be happy with them. I wish I could get hold of a good 7/8th, there are so many crap versions of that one around too.

Alan O · #12 15-02-08, 02:42 PM

The 7/8th is a paricularly good one with a superb patina and excellent rear detail. I can see no trace of blacking on it even on the reverse but I am quite happy that it is genuine.

I have been after a 7th Bn one for ages but it eludes me.

Alan

Keith Blakeman · #13 15-02-08, 03:27 PM

Most of the 7/8th that I see are very flat in detail where as your's looks nice and heavy. I do have a w/m version and actual badge itself is very nice but it's got a Fattorini, Bolton slider and I'm certain it's from the same source as all those named badges which appeared on Speedbid a copuple of years ago.

Alan O · #14 15-02-08, 03:31 PM

Is that bad or good?

Alan

Keith Blakeman · #15 15-02-08, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Is that bad or good?

Alan

Well, half of them had stamped sliders to VB or IY badges from every maker you can imagine. BP, J & Co, Gaunt B'Ham, WD, Fattorini, Tiptaft. As the seller came from the Midlands I assume that either someone had got old of genuine dies and was knocking out good quaility badges or they'd come across a supply of unissued ones and over did the authenticity with the sliders. Most of them had similar a font. I checked the Tiptaft one with a known genuine brand and the layout of the lettering was different. They still turn up on ebay from time to time, especially the small pattern unvoided 14th Hussars.