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  #1  
Old 22-09-21, 09:19 PM
grumpy grumpy is offline
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Default STAFF FORAGE CAPS on Uniformology

Turning to that well-illustrated site to identify a cap c. 1890 [it was Norfolk Regiment] I noticed the following:

WHO WORE THE CAPS?

All the officers of the regiment including the Quartermaster.
The Battalion HQ warrant officers and staff sergeants. This included the following appointments; The Sergeant Major, the Bandmaster, the Schoolmaster and the Quarter-Master Sergeant. Also the Musketry Sergeant Instructor, Gymnastics Sergeant Instructor, Band Sergeant, Sergeant Drummer (Later Drum Major), the Armourer Sergeant, Orderly Room Sergeant, Pioneer Sergeant, Signals Sergeant, Hospital Sergeant, Sergeant Master Cook, Sergeant Master Tailor, Sergeant Master Shoemake
r

This is a very long list, 16 other ranks in all, and yet one rarely sees more than about eight such caps in period portraits of "The Warrant Officers and Sergeants".
I venture to suggest that the cap was only worn by those entitled to First Class Clothing, as defined, for example, in Clothing Regs 1881, 1882, 1887, 1894 and 1914. That list is usually of about eight appointments for an infantry battalion, and indeed about eight such caps are generally seen, in the front and second row. These are not all "First Class Staff" e.g. band sergeant and sergeant drummer, but the appointment carries the tunic quality, cap, and sword to go with it.
I would be very interested to see photographs of the following wearing, in such posed groups, the splendid cap:
pioneer sergeant, signaller sergeant, master cook, master tailor and master shoemaker.

Two other minor points: the armourer rarely [but not never] seems to appear in the [infantry] cap because he is "with" the regiment, not "of" it; and the change drum major/ sergeant drummer was that way round in historical terms, although it probably reverted after 1920, when I lose interest.

Examples to refute the above will be most welcome, as ever, uniform being uniform.

Any mistakes are mine

Last edited by grumpy; 22-09-21 at 09:32 PM. Reason: addendum
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  #2  
Old 22-09-21, 09:38 PM
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Are these relevant?

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ictureid=80081

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ictureid=80100

Tim
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  #3  
Old 22-09-21, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn View Post
Thank you very much, yes, I was aware that armourers were to be seen in infantry regiment uniform, and the examples are welcome, but armourers also appear in the formal groups in their Corps uniform, no sash etc. I suppose that this is a period thing, which I have never pinned down. c. 1896 by the look of things.
However, one swallow does not a summer make: where are all the pioneers, signallers, shoemakers, tailors etc in staff caps in the groups?

Quite often c. 1900 [and especially in India] photographers produced battalion albums [I have one to RWF and one to Cheshires] naming the HQ staff members and appointments. The winter period ones [in scarlet] have nothing like sixteen men in the staff forage cap [and in that period, the armourer is very distinctive: no sash, and wearing Corps uniform].
Incidentally I believe the cap to be the finest piece of headgear ever issued, no wonder the owners clung on post 1902 until the caps fell to pieces!
Thank you again.

Last edited by grumpy; 22-09-21 at 10:30 PM.
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  #4  
Old 23-09-21, 08:27 AM
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Here’s some pictures I have of the hat in question
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  #5  
Old 23-09-21, 08:29 AM
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There’s no cap badge on this one
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Old 23-09-21, 08:31 AM
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This is nice photo
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Old 23-09-21, 08:34 AM
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Cap that I have
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Old 23-09-21, 08:37 AM
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And this is the badge normally found on the cap
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  #9  
Old 23-09-21, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk regt man View Post
And this is the badge normally found on the cap
Superb, thank you for taking the considerable trouble. A very unusual badge, so distinctive in shape.

Lucky man!
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Old 23-09-21, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk regt man View Post
And this is the badge normally found on the cap
That is a nice badge indeed.
Andy
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  #11  
Old 24-09-21, 10:37 PM
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no photographs of the following wearing, in such posed groups, the splendid cap:
pioneer sergeant, signaller sergeant, master cook, master tailor and master shoemaker.

We might have to wait a long time.

Any mistakes are mine.
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