Enamelling - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

pjac · #1 29-04-13, 09:52 AM

Does anybody know where I could get broken and missing enamel on officer blue cloth helmet plate centres restored?

Thanks

Patrick

wright241 · #2 29-04-13, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjac

Does anybody know where I could get broken and missing enamel on officer blue cloth helmet plate centres restored?

Thanks

Patrick

Patrick,
I have the same problem.
I tried quite a few "old type" jewelers in the old Jewelry Quarter in Birmingham last year - absolutely no chance. I have tried doing it on a piece of scrap with a plastic substitute - as has DaveC. Not sure how he got on, but it works if you can get the mix/colour right. Not sure whether the "top" end of the jewelry trade i.e. Aspreys or the like can do it - they must be able to as I have seen modern day officers badges that have been enamelled. However, it probably costs an arm and a leg......
On a technical issue, the colours that they used to use to do this are no longer considered safe - Cobalt Blue being one that was used a lot. So colour matching may also be a problem - even for for the likes of Aspreys...
Good luck. David

Fatboy Ken · #3 29-04-13, 10:57 AM

I'm not that clever, but if the badge is useless with broken enamell would it be easier to remove all of the enamell then "Re-enamell" the badge/s in question ?

It'll be simpler to do that than try to colour match an item, would it not ?

I have one as well, but it's a clear sky blue colour on the surround of the garter, but I'm too scared to play with it, it was my fault as well, dipstick.

I dropped it on the floor, ...... =-/ and a big piece of enamell fell out.

But I'm not that clever to play with such knowledge and expertise, it would be best to hide it from others incase they ask why I bought a broken badge ?

Ken (The Fatboy)

PS
Has anyone tried a crafts fair, to see if anyone there has the talents required ?

wright241 · #4 29-04-13, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatboy Ken

I'm not that clever, but if the badge is useless with broken enamell would it be easier to remove all of the enamell then "Re-enamell" the badge/s in question ?

It'll be simpler to do that than try to colour match an item, would it not ?

I have one as well, but it's a clear sky blue colour on the surround of the garter, but I'm too scared to play with it, it was my fault as well, dipstick.

I dropped it on the floor, ...... =-/ and a big piece of enamell fell out.

But I'm not that clever to play with such knowledge and expertise, it would be best to hide it from others incase they ask why I bought a broken badge ?

Ken (The Fatboy)

PS
Has anyone tried a crafts fair, to see if anyone there has the talents required ?

Ken, Yes I have. Its where I got my bottles of a resin based "enamel substitute" from. a) It can be mixed to get different colours etc and b) it does have the right consistency and looks and sets quite "thick".
However, I am planning (and will be trying it out this week) to try and get a template of the shape and just "cast" the piece only as it were (the alternative is to 'flood' the mix into a base - if there is one......). Then I will try and see if the cast piece appears to do the job. The worst problem is dismantling the badge and trying to hang onto the 'good bits' without having to replace the lot. Will let you know how I get on. All the best, David

davec2 · #5 29-04-13, 01:49 PM

Some samples ???

colin 17 · #6 29-04-13, 01:59 PM

Very nice Dave! Might have to try some of that out myself. Colin

hertsmil · #7 29-04-13, 02:29 PM

I have used a product called Efcolor Enamilling Powder.
I used in on a National Reserve badge to see what it looked like at it works fine.
This is a powder that you put in the oven at 150c, it is bet to remove any old enamel if you can but i think it looked OK.
I only did the centre of the Somerset National Reserve badge but it was quite easy.
Have put a befor and after image so you can see.
Andy

wright241 · #8 29-04-13, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davec2

Some samples ???

Very nice Dave and looking good.
The Efcolour enamelling powder is mentioned. I have tried it before but it (i.e. the heat) buggered up the gilt finish on the badge. However, once I have a suitable template for the piece I want to do, I may try that instead. Unless the product has changed, I am not sure the same thing won't happen again.
I want a shaped piece to fit behind some fretting, and don't want to bake the complete badge.
That's a nice finish on the lapel badge centre though. Well done.
David

Unknownsoldier · #9 29-04-13, 04:25 PM

I have an enamelling kiln etc. could possibly have a go and see how results fair...

btns · #10 29-04-13, 04:38 PM

A recent thread showed the TKS factory - enamelling was in one of the pictures.

wright241 · #11 29-04-13, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknownsoldier

I have an enamelling kiln etc. could possibly have a go and see how results fair...

Watch yourself and good luck....
Tried the glass (plastic) enamel this afternoon and it doesn't set thick enough to be able to withstand handling easily and give me the clarity of colour I want. I have worked out that it will need at least 3 separate coats... We will see.

Unknownsoldier · #12 29-04-13, 06:20 PM

I'll try and enamel some old penny's and see how I go if I get 5 minutes spare one afternoon

With work the way it is, it might be a while.

Tom

Warstone · #13 29-04-13, 06:35 PM

If it is vitreous enamel it cannot be 'patched' as a repair by any of the methods described above.

The correct way is to strip all of the enamel from the entire item with hydroflouric acid, neutralise it and then start again. Trying to 'patch' it in will not work, as the new enamel will not flow into the old.

Most badges are effectively a form of champleve enamelling but without the correct fluxes to barrier and a hot enough kiln you risk uneven spread and bubbling or cracking. Firing is done at 1450 and up to 1550 degrees. If it is a gilding metal badge and translucent enamels (as most are) there is the risk of metal 'bleed' (colour contamination from the base metal). This does not happen with opaque enamels.

Colour matching of any frit is possible to a pantone grade but some colours are not as vibrant as the originals; eg: Yellow No. 17, which had a uranium concentration of 10% in the frit, depleted to 0.23% uranium-235. It is the metal content that colours all vitreous enamels.

Plating - chrome, nickel, gold or (mercury) gilding must be removed first or it will flake and/or discolour. The plating is the last process to be done, as it flows at a lower temperature than the enamel. Any inhibited alkaline cleaners or acids used during degreasing for plating will not harm enamel, although there is a slight risk of uneven or thin enamel cracking during this process though.

There are a few people still capable of restoring items such as this but most have very long waiting lists, especially the mercury gilder (singular. There is only one in the UK) and do not advertise, as they don't need to.

Silver Tourist · #14 29-04-13, 08:39 PM

Good evening.

Now, why don't we answer the Member's question?

The answer is: yes, thank you.

Next question?

Enjoy.

S.T.

hertsmil · #15 29-04-13, 09:18 PM

There is also a few company's on the net that not sure of there prices.
The first is Pamela David Enamels there web address is www.badgecraft.co.uk and there email is info@badgecraft.co.uk
The other is Mark Newland and his web address is www.enamel-doctor.co.uk and his email is info@enamel-doctor.co.uk
I have had a quote from this company to restore a National Reserve Badge and he quoted about £40, not cheep but it should be a proper job.
Hope this information helps, if any one does use any of the above companys would love to see there work.
Andy