Field Security Police. - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

ProCoy · #1 06-05-10, 03:46 PM

Does anyone have a pic of an FSP cap badge they could show ?

Around 25 years ago I was sold a cap badge (for peanuts) that was supposedly for FSP. Basically just a GVIR Military Police cap badge with the scroll removed. I didn't give it much thought as there would be no way of knowing when it had been modified.

However, on another Forum there was mention of an article on FSP which referred to these modified MP badges being worn prior to the formation of the Int Corps in 1940. I suppose with the fact that they made a specific FSP shoulder title they could well have modified some MP cap badges to go with them.

Still trying to find the badge itself which is lurking in the attic somewhere but did manage to dig up this photo of it.

Anyone seen one of these they think was Pukka ?

Could this in fact be FSP related ?

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=10078

magpie · #2 06-05-10, 04:17 PM

This is in my junk box.

grey_green_acorn · #3 06-05-10, 04:32 PM

I have no picture but I have seen a GVIR Military Police cap badge with the scroll still on but blank with "MILITARY POLICE" having been ground down. The badge was worn in the Khaki Service Dress cap with a green cover instead of the CMP red cover.
The FSP shoulder title in brass is very rare and possibly only found as "theatre made".

Unknownsoldier · #4 06-05-10, 05:05 PM

~I thought FSP was dark blue? or is that VP?

Tom

ProCoy · #5 06-05-10, 05:54 PM

Thanks all. Nice to see a variant with only part of the scroll removed. Interesting too that some kept the scroll and only had the lettering ground off. Looks like there was no laid down "regulation" method.

As for Blue Caps, yes they were VP.

Vincent · #6 06-05-10, 08:21 PM

I have seen once a FSP title (not a joke) found on Dunkirk's beach in the years 80's... It may has been lost during the Dynamo operation in may and june 1940. I will try to get a photo of this rare title as soon as possible. The CMP title is more current and found from time to time on the same beaches...

54Bty · #7 06-05-10, 08:46 PM

F.S.P in brass.

grey_green_acorn · #8 06-05-10, 09:49 PM

Great to see these FSP titles - they seem to have been introduced from around 1937 when the FSP Wing of the Corps of Military Police was formed and probably because FSP NCOs wore Service Dress (rather than the newly introduced Battle Dress) to emulate the CMP "Red Cap" although no distinctive cap badge was produced.

There is a Field Security brassard/arm band from circa 1943 posted in my album. In July 1940 the Intelligence Corps was formed and absorbed Field Security Personnel. The "Police" title was apparently dropped following mobilisation in 1939 and deployment with the BEF to France to prevent mis-employment on non security duties.

After WW2 Field Security units were retitled as Counter Intelligence, then Security and more recently Military Intelligence.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=12270

If anyone has a spare FSP title I would be most interested.

Vincent · #9 08-05-10, 06:51 PM

This CMP title, was found with CMP buttons (...) and come from a place where CMP service dress were found in years 90' s and been throw during the withdrawal of the BEF in 1940.
Thanks for the informations about FSP titles...

ORISKANY · #10 08-05-10, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54Bty

F.S.P in brass.

Please post image of reverse of title with good image of lugs. Thanks.

engr9266 · #11 10-05-10, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

I have no picture but I have seen a GVIR Military Police cap badge with the scroll still on but blank with "MILITARY POLICE" having been ground down. The badge was worn in the Khaki Service Dress cap with a green cover instead of the CMP red cover.
The FSP shoulder title in brass is very rare and possibly only found as "theatre made".

Having read this thread I went into my "junk" box and come up with a GV1R badge with Military Police on the scroll ground off. There is a very faint out line of the wording on the front of the scroll and it is very clear on the rear. Could/is this a F.S.P. badge??

engr9266 · #12 10-05-10, 11:43 AM

Here are some (not too good) photo's

grey_green_acorn · #13 10-05-10, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engr9266

Here are some (not too good) photo's

Jerry,
It is not unusual to see the whole face of a badge ground and polished flat but I would like to think that it is an FSP badge as it looks as though the Military Police wording has been ground off but the rest of the detail of the badge remains unchanged.

Of course it is impossible to know if this happened before 1940!

Tony Barnes · #14 13-05-10, 05:32 PM

You may find this of interest although it's not directly related to FSP cap badges: At the beginning of the Second World War, the CMP had several branches:
Special Investigation Branch (SIB)
Red Caps, who were responsible for General Policing.
Blue Caps (Vulnerable Points), responsible for security of static locations and establishments.
White Caps (Traffic Control)
and a Field Security Wing (Green Caps), who wore the CMP cap badge, but without the scroll. The FSP was separated from the CMP in 1940 and absorbed into the Intelligence Corps. By the end of the war the Red Caps had replaced the Blue and White Caps

Praepositus · #15 06-08-11, 09:25 AM

If I may add to the debate - CMP consisted of the follwoing Wings & Branches during the 2WW period: ATS Provost - 1st allocation to Commands of ATS Pro made in Feb 42; WRAC Provost in 1949 with formation of WRAC; Traffic Control Wing formed in 1940 as direct result of lessons identified with BEF - distinguished by white band painted round steel helmet with blue diamond flash bearing the letters 'TC' - but these were not the "Whitecaps" that Tony mentioned as they were 'Ports Provost' sub-units formed in 1941, and much in evidence at during Op TORCH, HUSKEY, OVERLORD etc; "Bluecaps" appearing in the ORBAT in late 1940 were the Vulnerable Points Wing CMP, whose modern equivalent is the MPGS; "Redcaps" CMP proper - discipline, escorts & traffic control etc "Special Investigation Branch" (SIB) formed in Feb 1940 providing a detective capability with its Officers wearing General Service Corps cap badges etc; and finally "Greencaps" the Field Security Police (FSP) - with CMP responsible for the provision & training of FSP from 1937 onwards. On mobilisation FSP were regarded as CMP and were so badged wearing a Green stretch top to the SD cap and a GVIR CMP cap-badge HOWEVER, soldiers being soldiers, FSP NCOS tended to grind off the letters forming 'Military Police' on the scroll, whilst retaining the scroll itself. I have a FSP shoulder title (bought from Bosley's) but sadly no modified CMP capbadge albeit I have seen one. FSP became part of the Int Corps in December 1940.