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  #16  
Old 21-09-16, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Spellman View Post
There was a Very Nice pub on East Prescot Rd Page Moss/Huyton area called the Eagle and Child, this was on the route the Pals marched from Prescot to Liverpool in March 1915,I am not sure if it was so named to comemorate that march or was named after Lord Derby's coat of arms.
I am sure Tonyb will remember the establishment and its illustrious reputation

Paul
Paul, not an establishment I ever included in
any of my pub crawls!!!
I recall my Gran talking about a battle between black and white GIs during the war.
Check this out, the bar menu sounds devine....
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/...-eagle-3488635
Tony.
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  #17  
Old 22-09-16, 07:07 AM
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I have a dim memory that there's an 'Eagle and Child' somewhere in central Liverpool ? Certainly others in Lancashire and in Oxford.
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  #18  
Old 22-09-16, 07:32 AM
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There's an "Eagle and Child" near Kirkham in Lancashire, it was known as the "Bird and Bastard" by the guys stationed at nearby Weeton Camp.
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  #19  
Old 22-09-16, 08:10 AM
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There was an "Eagle and Child" in Prescot, about 200 yards from the old Lancashire Watch Makers factory, which was used as a barracks by one of the Liverpool Pals btns.
Both buildings still exist, the old factory is now split into small industrial units and the pub is apartments.
Tony.
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  #20  
Old 19-03-20, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by at57 View Post
Hi,
Hope you don’t mind me hijacking this post but I would also welcome opinions on the badge please. Size: 35mm x 35mm across the scroll.

Thanks
Andrew
Just seen this. Sorry Andrew but it’s definitely a fake. It’s the ‘toucan’ bird type repro and also note the footed loops.
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  #21  
Old 20-03-20, 09:03 AM
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Yes, I did provide the description in the earlier thread but here's the official heraldic description


The crest of the Earls of Derby: “On a chapeau gules, turned up ermine, an eagle (l), wings extended, or, preying on a child proper, swaddled gules, in a cradle laced or.” Below, a scroll inscribed SANS CHANGER.




PS I'm not an ornithologist !

PPS I disagree - I'm certain that the badge in #6 is an officer's collar badge - only offiecr's badges (cap and collar) have a gap between the eagles' legs, OR cap badges do not !



PPPS - going back on this thread i realise that I gave Tony the wrong identification - his was...

1st unofficial OR badge (with solid back) made in 1914 by Elkington (same die as their silver ones)


1915 official WO Pattern 8520/1915 , die struck, NS loops
1917 2nd official WO Pattern Patt 9483/1917, die struck with slider

Last edited by KLR; 20-03-20 at 09:14 AM.
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  #22  
Old 20-03-20, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLR View Post

PS I'm not an ornithologist !

PPS I disagree - I'm certain that the badge in #6 is an officer's collar badge - only offiecr's badges (cap and collar) have a gap between the eagles' legs, OR cap badges do not !
Julian,

The badge is a fake. Afraid you need to alter to your notes to officers collar badges and fakes having the gap.

If you were an ornithologist you’d note the eagle has a beak like a toucan far too fat and long, it has a line at the edge of its wing rather than feathers, pinprick eyeballs like it’s on LSD and rather than a crest it’s got a thick combover! The rest of the badge has other stereotypical fake traits such as ToysRus rounded lettering, poorly defined infant, coarse seeding etc. etc.

There are heaps of these on eBay and they’re sold by the usual repro sellers. See below... including one Buy It Now for £13.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Liverpool...3d7c%7Ciid%3A1

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Liverpool...3d7c%7Ciid%3A1

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401821662...&ul_noapp=true

Here’s one stamped ‘silver’ which might as well be stamped ‘sh*te’

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...adge-247235776

Last but not least this die is also featured in the Martin Marsh catalogue. Whilst the scan isn’t great the line outline of the wing in clearly visible and identical, it’s also discernible the beak is similar toucan-like. Hopefully at57 doesn’t mind but I’ve attached his badge for comparison.

Luke
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 38DE0869-D08B-470D-8F93-1D340A55F5A8.jpeg (51.4 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpeg 79B7F9CC-3023-406E-A56C-C0F78FB3C481.jpeg (68.5 KB, 20 views)
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  #23  
Old 20-03-20, 08:21 PM
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I still think the first one (of your list) is good
no 2 is rubbish
I will not dignify to comment on nos 3 and 4
(there are a number of Hall Marked silver brooches with maker I think RL)

oh yes, I agree that what I can see of the MM is rubbish too

(I think that the original heralds were not very good ornithologists either!)
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  #24  
Old 20-03-20, 11:22 PM
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They’re all from the same die.

Look at the loops of the top one you think is good (first 3 pics). Dustbin lid feet, no WW1 loop ever looked like that.

As to the silver badge on worthpoint it was sold by well known repro merchants Croft Militaria. A whole raft of marked ‘silver’ repro badges are from this stable.

All these badges are 100% fake and the die they’re from is a fake die created by Mr Marsh.

I would certainly agree about heralds and wager the one who designed Lord Derby’s coat of arms never laid eyes on an eagle!
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