"osons" ssf patch and jump wings

[MUDDYHERB]

hello stumbled across this site,

had to join and leave this post. more to do with the expert "recce" and a few others. i've collected badges since i was a wee boy in the 70's. mostly airborne as my father was one and gave me a box full. i later served 7+ years in the regular army (almost 1/2 of it in pet). i'm not a expert but i can tell you what is real/issued and what is fake money making.

"osons" is not french its latin. it means "let us dare". only 2 types were made and issued. the felt full colour for cf's and the cloth full colour for the parachute smoke. the od ebay finds are fake and a money making scam.

cbt jump wings
-parachute qualifed red leaf and light od thread wings
-served in a jump unit white leaf light od thread wings
- american made for them red leaf black thread wings
also tell tale sign of fake wings all types including metal is the maple leaf. if the leaf looks like a maple leaf and not like a pot leaf it is mostl likey real. the distorted pot leaf type is fake.

thanks and regards

muddyherb

[Voltigeur]

Welcometo the Forum MUDDYHERB.
You will find that this topic has already been discussed.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=14679

..........also, yes OSONS is french.

Cheers
Jo

[MUDDYHERB]

thanks,

i no but it is inaccurate. thought people who collect might want to no what is what. possibly to save them money on $50+ fake flashes.

went back and read most of the posts...

"osons", we were always told it was latin and from more then one officer/nco. but learn something new everyday, see i don't no every thing lol. the rest i think is accurate to 1989-1992 time period. the time i was there. some one said there was 4 ssf badges? only 2, the same black felt was worn on both cf green and tans. no cbt subdued was issued. officers didn't get special bullion badges for there cf's except for there beret badge. people can privately purchase bullion parachute wings for cf's. the only other uniform to have bullion type badges to my knowledge is the patrol/mess dress, possibley the band? only one smock was issued not 2. it was never used in the field unless for "dog and pony" shows. can't speak for after 1992 but i was there in 92. buy early of that year most units changed to wearing the garrison smock including units like 2tp 2cer, e bty (para) 2 rcha ect. making the airborne regiment the only ones to wear it. by 1995 the ssf was disbanded and 2cmbg was formed with a new badge. i doupt the government or dnd would otherize new badges for smocks that by that time less then 900 people were wearing and a flash that was being replaced. lastly there is no offical measurement for badge placement. the base tailors have hundreds of uniforms to do. they haven't the time to anally use a ruler and measure. also the rsm doesnt care. as long as its close and the uniform is clean and pressed bob's your uncle. saying that i'm sure there is a rso some were lol.

why am i posting this? a lot of reasons. a few are,
1 - i dislike misinformation from experts who read it in a book or new a guy, or seen a fella while on tasking. just because it's in a book doesn't make it the bible. a uniform badged in the early 80's isnt the same as the mid or late 80's. combats in germany come to mind.
2 - when i collected and had a intrest most stuff was real. now so much of every thing isnt. fakes dont bother me, specialy if well made. i have a few (not badges, uniforms/equipment). i bought them knowing they were. what i don't like is people who pass things off as real (rare/historic) for a lot of money. to be honest i realy dont like to see people paying a lot for semi modern badges (ssf,wings ect). how many i've tossed or given away threw the years?

well this is starting to become a soap box rant for me so i'll end it. like i've tried to point out, i hope. i'm not a expert by any means (motto osons, lol). but what i no, i no reasonably well.
also would only talk about the time period i served. as that is all i'm realy qualified to do, right?

again thank you and regards,

muddyherb

[edstorey]

Muddyherb:

Although I can appreciate your enthusiasm for all things Airbrone Regiment or SSF, what you are basically doing is rehashing the same old stuff that has been discussed over and over and over again in this and other forums. Perhaps you can support some of your personal theories with a little bit of factual documentation. Your statesments like "lastly there is no offical measurement for badge placement. the base tailors have hundreds of uniforms to do. they haven't the time to anally use a ruler and measure" or "also the rsm doesnt care. as long as its close and the uniform is clean and pressed bob's your uncle" certainly does not reflect the high standard of dress and deportment that were evident by members of the Airborne Regiment or the other units of the SSF that I witnessed and I suspect are your personal opinion.

Try coming back at us with more than just your opinions and then you will have a thread that is both interesting and factual.

[CftD]

Originally Posted by edstorey

Muddyherb:

Although I can appreciate your enthusiasm for all things Airbrone Regiment or SSF, what you are basically doing is rehashing the same old stuff that has been discussed over and over and over again in this and other forums. Perhaps you can support some of your personal theories with a little bit of factual documentation. Your statesments like "lastly there is no offical measurement for badge placement. the base tailors have hundreds of uniforms to do. they haven't the time to anally use a ruler and measure" or "also the rsm doesnt care. as long as its close and the uniform is clean and pressed bob's your uncle" certainly does not reflect the high standard of dress and deportment that were evident by members of the Airborne Regiment or the other units of the SSF that I witnessed and I suspect are your personal opinion.

Try coming back at us with more than just your opinions and then you will have a thread that is both interesting and factual.

I couldn't agree more. There are far too many entrenched views on this Forum (and others) which, when analysed, amount to no more than personal opinion. Unsubstantiated opinions can never amount to a definitive fact - there is no substitute for contemporary documented evidence. David

[MUDDYHERB]

ok,
when i say cleaned and pressed, as you should no because you were there...

cbt boots highly polished (shined) or garison boots spit shined. work dress pants pressed with a thin fine crease, front trousers - from cuff to belt loop centered, back trousers - cuff to inner corner of pocket. winter- unit tshirt or sweat shirt clean (meaning washed and dried) under jump smock. cbt epaulet slip ons pressed thin. summer - smock is changed to tan cf short shirt. pressed and starched, sleeves fine crease centered middle of epaulet, epaulet slip ons pressed thin. collar rank pins on collar squared off with cornner stiching of collar. cf name plate (in good repair) on right breast centered with pocket button. beret/cap badge clean and serviceable. if your keen and have aquired a brass cap badge it is silvoed to a high shine.

i no very well the high standars of the ssf and all cbt arms units. but isin't it just esier to say cleaned and pressed? if your in the no, like you obviously are you should've taken that as to what it meant lol.

i appoligize, i won't post again. i just thought i was clarifying misinformation. wasn't trying to correct or step on any well informed scholars toes. just stating what i personally no to be fact when i was in the regular army and served in petawawa (89-92), with the special service force. also i no how and what it takes to soldier (dress and deportment, soldier skills) and have nothing to prove. i've done my bit for my country (very well) and not behind a counter or desk.

again very sorry it won't happen again. but not sure why you have forum if i can't state my opinions or information even if it is not to your personal belifs or likes?

please except my appoligies thank you and still kind regardas,

muddyherb

[Bill A]

Originally Posted by MUDDYHERB

but not sure why you have forum if i can't state my opinions or information even if it is not to your personal belifs or likes?
muddyherb

The purpose of the Forum is to provide reliable, verifiable information about the insignia that we collect. It is necessary to take the discussion from the level of opinion to one of documented / substantiated information. Debate may ensue from differing opinions and knowledge bases, and the essence of that discussion should be to establish the actual facts as best as can be done.

[servicepub]

i dislike misinformation from experts who read it in a book or new a guy, or seen a fella while on tasking. just because it's in a book doesn't make it the bible.

I think that everyone on this forum dislikes 'misinformation'. However, the majority of what you read in books is based on either observation of many examples or, in the case of books that I write or publish, is based on actual documentation. I agree that some soldiers may not have followed the prescribed rules but that becomes a problem for their NCOs. The variances, if consistent, can be documented but they don't become 'official' merely because it was a wide-spread occurence.
The beauty of a book is that it provides a consistency of information which can later be referenced and challenged. Depending on the results of these a new book may emerge. This is why histories written in the immediate post-war era by participants only form a rough basis of events while later historians have wider access to documents which have since become de-classified.
There are many participants on this board who have served, many of them for more than 7 sevens, and who continue to serve. But wearing the uniform doesn't automatically make them an expert on insignia - even the insignia that they themselves wore. I would welcome specific comments from you, based on your first-hand knowledge, rather than broad sweeping statements. It is always possible that you saw insignia practices that were limited to a specific sub-unit and which would clear up confusion on the part of the collecting community. On the other hand - maybe not.

[Phillip Herring]

Why are CF jump wings and SSF patches such "hot" topics that stir up so much emotion? The badges are dead common. There have been one or two posters in the past who seem to think that being in the SSF was the be all and end all. As a soldier, I was more concerned with doing my job and staying out of trouble. The patch on my sleeve had no bearing on that.

The SSF was simply a brigade like 1, 4 and 5. Yes, there was The Canadian Airborne Regiment and sub-units and individuals with jump taskings. They had a different job than most people in the SSF and have good reason to take pride in being different from the rest of the brigade. In the main, we had the usual assortment of combat arms and trades people. Nothing special.

With regards to comments on the placement of badges. Tailor shops in the CF are generally co-located with clothing stores. They have strict guidelines to follow for what to put on a uniform and where to put it. That's why we take our uniforms to the Base Tailor.

From a research point of view, it would be interesting to see the actual directives given to the tailor shops.

Phil

[MUDDYHERB]

good morning,

said i wouldn't post again but i just feel compelled to clear up a few things. people are reading to much into my writting style and laziness of not wanting to write a bible.

i stated i'm only talking about my time in petawaw 89-92. i was in pet a few times after but wasn't serving so cant be 100% on practices. but i assumed that because i stated the time frame you would get it.

i never said there isn't a perscribed manner to put badges on, actualy i say there is rso's for that. to be realistic i'm not talking about sewing and wearing a shoulder title down by the cuff of the tunic. i assumed you would get it.

when i say the tailors doesn't measure, what is meant is ... say the cbt flag on the left shoulder, they no it has to be a inch centered under epaulet. i've never seen them once measure mark and sew. the flag could end up 7/8" and a little off center it could end up 1 1/16" centered. that goes for my comment about the rsm not caring. what is meant, he isn't walking around with a ruler making sure badges are exactly a perscribed measurement. he has better things to do and he relizes once a soldier gets to a battalion the individual should no and the nco's enforce the said policies. again i assumed you would get it.

comment about 7 yrs service. that is only reg force time. besides its not 7 months, i think after 7 yrs you get the jist of the armed forces and think it gives you just as much insight as anyone else.

lastly, the ssf was special and not like other brigades. i served in 4 cmbg and can say 4 cmbg was better trained and combat ready then the ssf or any other brigade. however when i served in the ssf, fitness standards were second to none, well above average. that alone would've made them special, but the brigade had to be airdropable or airportable. yes other brigades do helicopter stuff and can organize parachute jumps, but in the ssf it was a constant ongoing thing.

when i posted i didn't relize i had to break down comments and explain in detail what is meant. my fault, i thought for some reason most would be of a military back ground and get the meaning. never thought in a milion years my comments would be nit picked and cause so much turmoil.

at the end off the day i'm waisting your time and mine. abviously i have nothing to offer unfortunately, again assumed first hand accounts would be of intrest. appoligize again for any ill feelings i may have caused.

good luck and regards,

muddyherb

[Bill A]

I am really not sure there is much more value added in this thread. The topic has been discussed on other threads which are good references. Locked.