British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Infantry (& Guards) Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-03-19, 01:45 PM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,736
Default Victorian Royal Scots

Hi All
Is this an officer badge? The lugs appear silver or silver plated, not brass and the St. Andrew centre piece looks like it is fire-gilt, but I don't know if the officers wore this style of badge or had a different pattern.
Thanks, cheers,
Alex
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC_0085.jpg (65.8 KB, 77 views)
File Type: jpg DSC_0086.jpg (54.3 KB, 42 views)
File Type: jpg DSC_0087.jpg (55.9 KB, 31 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-03-19, 01:54 PM
Parabellum's Avatar
Parabellum Parabellum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 383
Default

Looks like officers, I picked up an other ranks one recently. A very nice badge, mine has brass lugs, and is of course in bi metal.
The construction is the same.

Last edited by Parabellum; 08-03-19 at 04:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-03-19, 04:21 PM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,736
Default

Thanks PB.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-03-19, 09:04 PM
grenadierguardsman's Avatar
grenadierguardsman grenadierguardsman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 3,899
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Rice View Post
Hi All
Is this an officer badge? The lugs appear silver or silver plated, not brass and the St. Andrew centre piece looks like it is fire-gilt, but I don't know if the officers wore this style of badge or had a different pattern.
Thanks, cheers,
Alex
Thats a beauty.
Andy
__________________
Leave to carry on Sir please.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-03-19, 10:40 PM
Toby Purcell's Avatar
Toby Purcell Toby Purcell is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Completed colour service and retired
Posts: 3,202
Default

It’s a warrant officer pattern badge. Once known as ‘staff badges’ as they were worn only by the specialist SNCOs employed in Bn HQ employments, such as the RQMS, Pioneer Sergeant, Musketry Instructor, etc. After 1915 and the introduction of WO2 (CSM) it included appointments at company level for the first time.
I enclose a photo of an officer pattern badge, which was always of a different design.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 12AE21D1-AFC2-4AC0-9F86-037BCC56FF17.jpg (80.1 KB, 27 views)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-03-19, 10:44 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,736
Default

Hi Toby
Thanks for the post but the badge you have shown is the post-1927 officers badge. The one I have posted is the pre-1882 pattern.
Cheers,
Alex
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-03-19, 12:13 PM
Jeff Mc William's Avatar
Jeff Mc William Jeff Mc William is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wakefield West Yorks
Posts: 1,061
Default Late as usual

Hi all
Late on the scene again. Sorry.
Alex : Your excellent badge is an ORs style 1st Bn Royal Scots glengarry badge c. 1871 to 1890 and is in fact rarer than the version with the title "The Royal Regiment". (According to Leask & McCance the 2nd Bn wore a crowned HPC for this period ) However, considering your centre piece appears to be gilded (is it ?) it could be, as Toby has said, Warrant Officers although I believe that all Senior NCOs wore Officers badges.(?)
With regard to Toby's Officers badge, you are quite correct to point out that this is a post 1927 badge. (The dates Bloomer gives are 1931 - 1959). Prior to this, from 1881 the Royal Scots Officers badge was identical to the Scots Guards.(again see Leask & McCance). Regards Jeff

PS: My examples attached.

RS.OG1.jpg RS.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-03-19, 12:28 PM
Parabellum's Avatar
Parabellum Parabellum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 383
Default

Hi
Here's the badge I have. I have looked with a glass for any silver or Gilt, but can't see any.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20190226_094206.jpg (116.7 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20190309_082746.jpg (96.7 KB, 16 views)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-03-19, 12:44 PM
Jeff Mc William's Avatar
Jeff Mc William Jeff Mc William is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wakefield West Yorks
Posts: 1,061
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parabellum View Post
Hi
Here's the badge I have. I have looked with a glass for any silver or Gilt, but can't see any.
Hi Parabellum
That's because yours (and mine) are both ORs badges. The gilding I referred to was on Alex's badge … so poss this is Sgts or Sen NCO. Regards Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-03-19, 12:46 PM
Parabellum's Avatar
Parabellum Parabellum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 383
Default

Just as I thought, thanks Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-03-19, 01:44 PM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,736
Default

Thanks again for the replies. I expect you are correct and it is a Sgts or SNCOs badge. I do have a very badly damaged O/Rs version so I've photographed the 2 together for a comparison and the difference is plain to see.
Cheers,
Alex
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC_0041.jpg (55.1 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg DSC_0042.jpg (45.6 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg DSC_0043.jpg (49.3 KB, 10 views)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-03-19, 10:42 AM
Toby Purcell's Avatar
Toby Purcell Toby Purcell is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Completed colour service and retired
Posts: 3,202
Default

You are quite right to point out that the officers cap badge I posted is the later version. The point I was trying to make is that the officers pattern was different, with a special configuration.

Gilding of an OR’s pattern badge indicates it is for a SNCO, or in some regiments it was arranged privately for bandsmen.
Different styles of badge of course generally relate to a specific type of headdress and, before 1897, Royal Scots WOs and SNCOs on the battalion staff wore a peaked forage cap with a gilded and silvered badge like that of the officers.

Colour Sergeants and below (no CSMs at that time) wore glengarry caps with the OR pattern badge. In most regiments (of the line) this was a standard pattern badge, but in Scottish regiments one has to be careful.

Kipling and King inadvertently caused much confusion when they referred to ‘sergeants badges’ where there is a superiority in quality (gilding, etc), but in the vast majority of cases these were the badges of battalion ‘staff’, some of whom (the more junior) were indeed just sergeants, but holding a staff appointment, e.g. Pioneer Sergeant, or Cook Sergeant. However, they were known collectively as ‘staff sergeants’ and by extension, their badges as ‘staff badges’. These latter wore superior uniform and headress in a way that company sergeants (Colour Sergeant and below) did not. See the series created by Bruce and I: http://www.uniformology.com/FORAGE-CAPS-01.html

Some Scottish regiments do seem to have arranged superior badges for their company level sergeants (not at public expense) in a way that other regiments did not, and presumably the Royal Scots was one of them.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Royal Scots Sgts 1895.jpg (81.3 KB, 14 views)

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 13-03-19 at 03:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-03-19, 05:44 PM
Paul Spellman's Avatar
Paul Spellman Paul Spellman is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,359
Default

They are Pipers badges, however prior to 1890 the 2nd Bn wore similar with a Gilt backing.
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-03-19, 08:34 PM
Toby Purcell's Avatar
Toby Purcell Toby Purcell is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Completed colour service and retired
Posts: 3,202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Spellman View Post
They are Pipers badges, however prior to 1890 the 2nd Bn wore similar with a Gilt backing.
Paul
That makes sense as an alternative to a SNCO, similar then to the concept of a bandsmen’s badge. What do you mean by ‘gilt backing’ for the 2nd Battalion?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-03-19, 01:16 PM
Parabellum's Avatar
Parabellum Parabellum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 383
Default

I thought the Piper's badge was a different style like the one here.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg The-Royal-Scots-Pipers-Glengarry-Badge-heavy-flat~2.jpg (31.2 KB, 13 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:58 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.