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  #1  
Old 14-07-21, 09:45 PM
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Default The Buffs - Blackened Brass

Does anyone know if a Territorial Battalion of The Buffs wore a blackened brass cap badge?

I know a BB badge was worn by the 1st V.B. and a friend has shown me his which has a scroll attached that reads 1st Volr Battn.

I’ve also seen another BB Buffs without the scroll (or any signs of one) on a long slider, owned by another friend.

The slider on my badge is not as long, however, there is a feint crimp mark in the same position as the scroll-less long slidered badge.

Whatever it is it’s a very attractive and I feel early (pre-WW1) badge.
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  #2  
Old 14-07-21, 10:43 PM
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May well be a makers variation but I tend to think non connected tail tips equal an early badge. Regards, Paul.
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  #3  
Old 15-07-21, 07:33 AM
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Would you rule out a variant of 4th Bn? - Although that had a 4th Bn The Buffs - on the scroll KK1699. I can not put my fingers on mine but KK describe it as Bze (Can not recall if blades) - Could Bze be Officer and Blackened without 4th Bn scroll be ORs?.

No doubt someone will put me right
Mike

Update - I think there is a thread on here (sorry can not transfer link here) describing 4th Bn as blackened brass and showing with lugs so - I am either wrong re OR / Officer variant speculation; or the one illustrated in post 1 may predate manufacture with a 4th Bn scroll?
OR there is another explanation.

Last edited by Mike B; 15-07-21 at 07:48 AM.
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  #4  
Old 15-07-21, 09:37 AM
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Thanks gents.

Tail tip isn’t connected on my badge, albeit, it has been knocked so may appear so in the pic.

Other V.B. badges attached and in link:

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...3&d=1482248918

It’s an idea Mike, however, this badge is slidered and all the 4th V.B. scroll badges I’ve seen are on loops perhaps suggesting they’re earlier than the badge in the opening post.
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  #5  
Old 15-07-21, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
Thanks gents.



It’s an idea Mike, however, this badge is slidered and all the 4th V.B. scroll badges I’ve seen are on loops perhaps suggesting they’re earlier than the badge in the opening post.
Hi Luke, I was thinking 4th TF not Vols (as you post in post 4 above) - but may be way off. I apologise for not remembering if my 4th TF was lugs or slider - but I see your point. On reflection, following my first post, I don't think mine was OSD Bze on blades - more likely Blackened Brass but with '4th Bn The Buffs' scroll (as yours looks to be) although KK suggest Bze. All the best Mike
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Old 15-07-21, 10:41 AM
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I understand now Mike, sorry for misunderstanding. I had no idea 4th TF Bn wore a BB badge so that could be a contender if itís the case.
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  #7  
Old 15-07-21, 11:00 AM
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I would imagine that I'm well out with this one, but is there a possibility that the badge may be blackened for wear by the "Palestinian Buffs", the Jewish and Arab companies formed in 1940 and attached to 1st Bn The East Kents until forming The Palestine Regiment in 1942?
They wore a bronzed shoulder title, which would have to be commissioned for production, but if they wore a darkened Buff's cap badge (I don't know if they wore Buff's cap badges) it would be a simple expedient to slap some black paint on badges rather than have them bronzed.

Or has the badge simply been blackened at some time as are those of other units for tactical reasons.
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  #8  
Old 15-07-21, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
I understand now Mike, sorry for misunderstanding. I had no idea 4th TF Bn wore a BB badge so that could be a contender if it’s the case.
Wish I could find mine Luke - It will be in a box I can not get to at present. I have a a couple of boards of circa around WW1 TF Bns - one for ORs, the other Bze OSD. I didn't leave a gap in the ORs board for 4th Buffs (ie Buffs with 4th Bn Buffs scroll) - having thought K&K Bze referred to OSD. I think mine, from Bosleys many years ago, is OR Blackened Brass and that is why I did not mount it (ie left no gap for it in the OR board). It shows the advantage of not mounting on boards until you know every gap to fill ;-) .
All the best
Mike

Leigh - interesting thought re Palestinian Buffs

Last edited by Mike B; 15-07-21 at 04:19 PM.
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  #9  
Old 15-07-21, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
I would imagine that I'm well out with this one, but is there a possibility that the badge may be blackened for wear by the "Palestinian Buffs", the Jewish and Arab companies formed in 1940 and attached to 1st Bn The East Kents until forming The Palestine Regiment in 1942?
They wore a bronzed shoulder title, which would have to be commissioned for production, but if they wore a darkened Buff's cap badge (I don't know if they wore Buff's cap badges) it would be a simple expedient to slap some black paint on badges rather than have them bronzed.

Or has the badge simply been blackened at some time as are those of other units for tactical reasons.
I love the idea.

But the badge feels much, much earlier than the 1940s Leigh. Iíd place it no later than WW1 at the very latest.
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  #10  
Old 16-07-21, 04:12 PM
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152868422...EAAOSwXPNaIsC3

No connection to the seller but 1st VB are in black badge and buttons.

I would also see:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152508516...UAAOSw4CFYzXuD

1916 and obsolete belt but the badge is blackened as well. Could be an old VB one?
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  #11  
Old 16-07-21, 05:16 PM
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Keith Blakeman Keith Blakeman is offline
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Bugeye is a goldmine for photos, nice person too.
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  #12  
Old 18-07-21, 10:49 AM
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Many thanks Alan.

Nice to see the badge with the added V.B. scroll as per Keith’s clearly being worn by at least 3 of the sitters apparent from their outlines.

The second photo is very interesting indeed. As you say it could be old stock. The mystery deepens!
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  #13  
Old 18-07-21, 07:36 PM
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Frank Kelley Frank Kelley is offline
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A really nice and pleasing badge, I too, would think pre war.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
Does anyone know if a Territorial Battalion of The Buffs wore a blackened brass cap badge?

I know a BB badge was worn by the 1st V.B. and a friend has shown me his which has a scroll attached that reads 1st Volr Battn.

Iíve also seen another BB Buffs without the scroll (or any signs of one) on a long slider, owned by another friend.

The slider on my badge is not as long, however, there is a feint crimp mark in the same position as the scroll-less long slidered badge.

Whatever it is itís a very attractive and I feel early (pre-WW1) badge.
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