Royal Artillery grenade badge questions

[3dg]

Hello
The grenade badge worn by the RA in the Victorian era, the one similar to that of the Grenadier Guards.
What era and headdress was this badge worn please?
And are there and distinguishable difference between the RA grenade and that of the Grenadier Guards please?
Many thanks for your time

Chris

[kingsley]

I have always wanted to know the answer to this question as well, and have wondered whether the same pattern badge might have been worn by both the artillery and the GG. I don't know much about Victorian Grenadier Guards insignia, but have assumed that the artillery wore a 55mm grenade badge (WM for Vols) and that they were worn by artillery (together with the larger plume sockets) both in Australian colonies and in UK.
In the attached images, the single badge appears to be much later and may have been a cloak fastener.

[3dg]

Anyone know?
I thought someone would.
Cheers

Chris

[grenadierguardsman]

Originally Posted by 3dg

Hello
The grenade badge worn by the RA in the Victorian era, the one similar to that of the Grenadier Guards.
What era and headdress was this badge worn please?
And are there and distinguishable difference between the RA grenade and that of the Grenadier Guards please?
Many thanks for your time

Chris

The Grenade was worn from about 1830-40 for the Grenadier Guards. The evidence for this would be down to the types of headdress worn, so no photo's. They would have been worn on the peak less forage cap or pill box cap, for the Guards, then the forage cap as we know now and the beret. Hope this helps, Toby may post later.
Andy

[3dg]

Thank you Andy
So would it have been the same era and headdress for the Royal Artillery?
Do you know if there were any differences between the two badges?

Chris

[grenadierguardsman]

Originally Posted by 3dg

Thank you Andy
So would it have been the same era and headdress for the Royal Artillery?
Do you know if there were any differences between the two badges?

Chris

Im not knowledgeable about the headdress the RA wore, but the differences in the badges being, gilding metal for the Grenadier Guards.
Andy

[Artynut]

Reference the grenade badge mentioned. I would like to add that K.&K. Vol. 1 make no mention of a grenade style headdress badge for the R.A. Excepting for the R.A.Volunteers and two are shown. One is as the Grenadier Guards, the other with Seven flames, all in White metal. Litchfield & Westlake’s “The Volunteer Artillery, 1859-1908” show three variations worn on the forage cap with either (They state), seven, ten or fourteen flames. Figures 18, 19 and 20 (page 14) actually show 17, 7 and 14 flame tips respectively. if you have not those books, check my albums, look for Volunteer Artillery. White metal badges appear goldfish colour due to red back ground. Regards, David J.

[Artynut]

A further note regarding the Grenadier Guards fused grenade badge. K. & K. Show only one plain grenade worn from from 1896 on the forage cap for Other Ranks, in gilding metal. This with 17 flame tips. Regards, David J.

[grenadierguardsman]

Originally Posted by Artynut

A further note regarding the Grenadier Guards fused grenade badge. K. & K. Show only one plain grenade worn from from 1896 on the forage cap for Other Ranks, in gilding metal. This with 17 flame tips. Regards, David J.

Yes, I would take K & K reference the Guards with a pinch of salt. There is photographical evidence on the internet regarding the number of flames on the grenade. K & K didn't have use of the internet in those days though.
Andy

[grenadierguardsman]

However the date 1896 is well out.....
Andy

[3dg]

My apologies to Andy and David J for my late reply.
Thank you both for your contribution to my thread.
Some useful information to work on.
Il answer your PM now David.
Cheers

Chris

[Artynut]

Chris, Thanks for the work-out, both Mentally and Physically! . This is my second attempt. Unbeknown to me, the forum cut me off before I could post my answer! So, I’ll try to condense it! Plain grenade as per G.Guards was used on some forms of head dress from 1880 until 1902 (14 flame tips) the collar was the “Universal Grenade” (7 flame tips) as per in use by many fusilier regiments. This collar was in use until 1926. In 1927 it was changed to the R.E. Collar badge, (9 flame tips and an added scroll bearing the motto “UBIQUE.” In 1928, the design of the collar reverted back to a 7 flame tip style but retained the lower scroll and motto. That style stayed in use until 1926, all in gilding metal. This information is contained in “The Dress of the Royal Artillery” by D. Alastair Campbell.
Other books consulted were “Uniforms of the Royal Artillery, 1716 - 1966.” And “The History of the Dress Of The ROYAL REGIMENT of ARTILLERY by Capt. R.J.MacDonald. Both the latter contain a combined total of 44 full colour plates drawn by their respective authors. Unfortunately, none of the prints show the particular grenade in question being worn. Even the two prints showing the “Pill Box hat” show them sans any badge at all. Best regards to all interested parties. David J.

[3dg]

Thank you David J for your time and help.
I've seen photos of the Volunteer Artillery wearing the WM grenade, but never the regulars, interesting the Dress of the RA book states the GM grenade was worn, and yet K&K don't show one in their book.
Still a bit of a mystery I'd say.
Cheers
Chris

[3dg]

Just found this picture!!
This is a regular unit isn't it?

Chris

[3dg]

Thought the caption said ra it's VA volunteer artillery.
Ah well