York & Lancs Officer

[badger123]

My son bought this picture a short while ago (it was in a frame with a small bronze Y&L badge-the type mentioned in previous threads).

What is really bugging me is what the writing says. I know that forum members are renown for their ability to come up with answers to puzzles so please feel free to come up with suggestions.

I know that the bottom word is 'Sheffield' but what does the rest say??? And can anyone tell me about the officers rank, when did pips/stars on the shoulder come into use?

I have played around with the contrast/brightness for the second picture.

Thanks, Ivan

[matti467]

Shoulder rank was a 'Guards Thing' before 1914. Cuff rank remained in use by many officers, of pre-war vintage up to the end of hostilities. Robert Graves was cold shouldered in the RWF mess for having shoulder rank which he had worn in the Royal Welch. It was deemed by some old-soldiers as cowardly hidding ones rank away from the obvious cuff insignia. As the war progressed more and more officers moved it to the shoulder. One good reason is that it remained clear and didn't become obscured with muck and grime of trench life.
Matti

[Toby Purcell]

From the Battle of the Somme in July 1916 onwards the wearing of rank on the shoulders became more and more practised and some units even encouraged the wearing of ORs SD jackets with officer rank on the shoulder straps. Two pips on the shoulder was a full lieutenant and three pips was a captain.

Sheffield fell within the recruiting area of the York and Lancaster Regiment and the city raised its own battalion of this regiment in 1914-15. It was all but wiped out just outside Serre on the 1st July 1916.

The writing appears to be the officers name and middle initial (too small for me to read) above the word Sheffield, which is presumably where the photo was taken.

[badger123]

Matti/Toby,

Thanks for the info about the pips, very interesting.

The Y&L raised 22 battalions during WW1 and I am conscious that this could be an officer of any one of them (except the 5th Battalion).

The Sheffield link is intriguing as a potential candidate could be someone from the 4th Hallamshire Battalion (Hallamshire being a part of Sheffield and the surrounding area).

I have tried to blow up the picture and have come up with this.

Ivan

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by badger123

Matti/Toby,

Thanks for the info about the pips, very interesting.

The Y&L raised 22 battalions during WW1 and I am conscious that this could be an officer of any one of them (except the 5th Battalion).

The Sheffield link is intriguing as a potential candidate could be someone from the 4th Hallamshire Battalion (Hallamshire being a part of Sheffield and the surrounding area).

I have tried to blow up the picture and have come up with this.

Ivan

I forgot to say that it was the 12th (Sheffield City) 'Service Battalion' (i.e. war raised) of the York and Lancs.

The name now looks like a woman's (perhaps his paramour) and reads 'Ethel M' something (last word still illegible).

[badger123]

I thought Ethel as well Toby but close up, I'm not so sure as there seems to be a large gap between what seems to be a letter 'E' and the 'thel'. But thats the closest thing so far.

Cheers, Ivan

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by matti467

Shoulder rank was a 'Guards Thing' before 1914. Cuff rank remained in use by many officers, of pre-war vintage up to the end of hostilities. Robert Graves was cold shouldered in the RWF mess for having shoulder rank which he had worn in the Royal Welch. It was deemed by some old-soldiers as cowardly hidding ones rank away from the obvious cuff insignia. As the war progressed more and more officers moved it to the shoulder. One good reason is that it remained clear and didn't become obscured with muck and grime of trench life.
Matti

I think you mean ".... had worn in the Welsh Regiment". Title changed to Welch by Army Order in 1920.

They recently became sort of Royal by their great good fortune of being absorbed by the Royal Welch Fusiliers, the senior and only Royal regiment of Wales.