Some Unknown Buttons From Devon!

[Peter Brydon]

I seem to recall that in one of the "Hornblower " books ( and yes I know that they are fiction ) mention is made of the wealthier Captains kiting out the crews of their boats to make them look as smart as possible. I presume there was some historical fact in this and I wonder if the Prometheus buttons might have been made for the Captains boat crew ?

P.B.

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by A140_Artefacts

Regarding what you said about an Indian button ending up in Devon it could be possible as I had a button a while back I couldn't identify that went to an American and it turned out it was a American Civil War button of the North Carolina Cavalry. That too was found in a field in the UK so it just shows how buttons can travel the globe!

I believe that I have read that farmers used to plough old coats and jackets into clay soil as it helped to break down the soil. There was a huge trade in worn out clothes, known as shoddy, that were used for the purpose. It may explain why some odd buttons turn up in unlikely fields. I have a Napoleonic button in my collection that was found buy a detectorist in Essex.

[davidwyke]

Originally Posted by High Wood

I believe that I have read that farmers used to plough old coats and jackets into clay soil as it helped to break down the soil. There was a huge trade in worn out clothes, known as shoddy, that were used for the purpose. It may explain why some odd buttons turn up in unlikely fields. I have a Napoleonic button in my collection that was found buy a detectorist in Essex.

That's quite correct. The Heavy Woolen District of the West Riding was one of the main centres for commercially processing old garments, producing mungo and shoddy.

It was also commonplace for farmers throughout Yorkshire to acquire and throw old garments into the fields and leave them to rot away and be ploughed into the soil.

Prior to processing in the mills I'm sure that buttons would have first been removed from garments but it's obvious that in many cases farmers didn't bother doing this. Incidentally, a few local farmers still follow this practice to a limited extent.

The above is certainly one reason, perhaps the most likely reason, button collectors give for buttons turning up in unlikely places on the land.

David

[High Wood]

It could also explain the preponderance of military buttons found as I imagine that there would be literally thousands of used, but unusable, uniforms left after a war. An enterprising dealer would probably buy bundles of them and whilst the buttons would have a scrap value, you would have to pay somebody to remove them. It would be cheaper and easier to sell a bundle to a farmer for shoddy than processing thousands of uniforms. Of course many would have been processed but not all.

[Chacal]

The shoddy theory is highly likely, but don't forget the possibility of artifacts coming in with night soil, perhaps from local barracks?

Graham

[davidwyke]

Originally Posted by Chacal

The shoddy theory is highly likely, but don't forget the possibility of artifacts coming in with night soil, perhaps from local barracks?

Graham

But how did the buttons get into the "night soil" in the first place. On second thoughts, let's not go there!

David

[High Wood]

My Mrs had an allotment on the edge of Dorking when we lived there, and when she first took it over I was pressganged into doing the heavy digging for her. During the proceedings I found a large U.S. army button followed by a second one a few feet away. I later borrowed a metal detector and searched the plot and found a further three U.S. army buttons of various sizes and a U.S. collar disc, undoubtedly from the same uniform.

I don't believe that the jacket was buried to break up the soil but was likely to have been the consequence of a romantic encounter with a local girl in 1943/44. There is a pub called the Plough at the top of the hill and I imagine that one summer evening the couple were drinking in the pub and on the way back to Dorking, they stopped in a field to look at the moonlight. You can fill in what happened next yourselves, but I imagine that they were disturbed and had to leave in a hurry leaving the soldier's tunic behind.

Conjecture, I know, but why else would you leave your tunic behind?

[runic1901]

Among shipping line button collectors No 1 is commonly called 'Cable and Wireless'. I have only ever seen closed back, post 1835 examples of it. They would have been one of the companies laying submarine cables around the globe.
Regards, Tony