Gaunt Car Badge with Guards colours - Page 2 - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

GriffMJ · #16 28-03-16, 01:58 PM

HMS Conway club badges..

See also.... http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/m...es_button.aspx

Conway Merchant Navy trust is a charitable organisation, and the successor to the HMS Conway Merchant Navy Cadet School. HMS Conway was founded on the Mersey in 1859, and moved to North Wales in 1940 before eventually closing in 1974. The Trust was set up to continue providing sponsorship to Merchant Navy cadets.

Peter Brydon · #17 28-03-16, 02:10 PM

I presume the "castle" is a representation of Plas Newydd on Anglesey, where the school moved to from the ship that was moored on the Mersey:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plas_Newydd_(Anglesey)

I have some interesting memories of visiting a friend at HMS Conway when he was a cadet there.

P.B.

Peter Brydon · #18 28-03-16, 02:31 PM

No it cant be as it features in insignia worn before the move to Anglesey.

P.B.

renamelbages · #19 28-03-16, 05:40 PM

Thankyou all very much for your input - the HMS Conway Merchant Navy Cadet School theory is a possibility.
Maybe its coincidental that the Badge has the same coloured backing plate as Gaunt's Guards Car Badges - I make Ministry of Defence Licensed Guards badges & sometimes I am asked by customers to show the colours vertically as opposed to the "correct" horizontal.
Here is a photo of a later edition of the same Castle Gaunt Car Badge, I would say this one is late 50's to 60's as opposed to the first photo I posted being older.
RE

Warstone · #20 28-03-16, 07:23 PM

That's possibly because you don't understand what the backing stripes system is based on and how it was applied. It has nothing to do with tactical flashes, unit signs, stable belts or beret flashes. Another example of the 'wrong' backing is the Royal Horse Artillery car badge, which does not match the blue/yellow stable belt. The vertical stripes on Guards badges were deliberate and are not 'wrong'. Some badges were supplied in a horizontal format under specified conditions at point of order.

I'm also interested to see you say you make Ministry of Defence Licenced Guards badges. Despite what the MoD claim, they have no IP rights over the backings, as they never formed part of the War Office/MoD system and therefore can't be registered by them and they cannot claim this retrospectively decades later.

You've also stated that the first badge imaged is 'older' than the second one. I'd be curious to learn what you base that statement on?

GriffMJ · #21 28-03-16, 07:51 PM

If the enamel plate can be altered then the red stripe on an angle would be correct? ....bottom = left and top right.

But maybe you cant do that because of the fixings for the castle?

Warstone · #22 28-03-16, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

If the enamel plate can be altered then the red stripe on an angle would be correct? ....bottom = left and top right.

But maybe you cant do that because of the fixings for the castle?

The stripes are correct as they aren't associated with the Conway Club badge but you're also correct that the castle fixing bolts prevent repositioning of the centre circlet. Renamelbages mistakenly attributed these as Guards colours.

peter monahan · #23 29-03-16, 02:40 PM

Realistically, there are a finite and actually fairly small number of combinations whicjh one can create using stripes of primary colours, as evidenced by the many national flags with confusingly similar colour schemes. If, as has been suggested and as seems to make sense, it's not possible to register or trademark something as basic as 'red/blue/red vertical stripes' then anyone might decide to use that design for reasons which seem good to them at the time.

And, with all respect to the Guards, it's hardly an original combination. So, I would not, personally, spend a lot of time agonizing over reconciling a merchant navy cadet establishment's colour scheme with some perhaps imaginary proprietary colour scheme first or most often used by Her Majesty's Guards. And it is, when all's said and done, a car badge, not an issued piece of kit falling under MoD regs, no?

renamelbages · #24 30-03-16, 06:46 PM

Hello WarStone - I merely stated that the Badge in question was "In Guards Colours" is that true or not ?
I started this post in a friendly manner, trying to find out what badge this was - as you are probably the worlds leading expert on Gaunt Car Badges why not just come to the table & tell the members here what badge it is ? Is it a badge that was made for the HMS Conway Merchant Navy Cadet School or not ? And if so why did they choose to use the Guards Colour Backing Plate ?
With regards to the MOD Licensing it is the Insignias which are protected as opposed to the colours, I am sorry if I mis lead you there.
Grenadierguadsman's comment "the Guards blue red blue, is normally horizontal" I agree with him, they are normally shown that way as a TRF, Flag or a Cap Badge backing.
Well you tell me if the first Gaunt "Castle" Car Badge is later than the second one I displayed ?
My reasoning was the length & width of the Badge Bar attaching tab at the bottom, longer & narrower on earlier badges than the second "Castle" Badge I displayed, please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks for any more useful information you can give me/us about this Badge as it is a well know "unknown" Gaunt Car Badge.

RE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warstone

That's possibly because you don't understand what the bracking stripes system is based on and how it was applied. It has nothing to do with tactical flashes, unit signs, stable belts or beret flashes. Another example of the 'wrong' backing is the Royal Horse Artillery car badge, which does not match the blue/yellow stable belt. The vertical stripes on Guards badges were deliberate and are not 'wrong'. Some badges were supplied in a horizontal format under specified conditions at point of order.

I'm also interested to see you say you make Ministry of Defence Licenced Guards badges. Despite what the MoD claim, they have no IP rights over the backings, as they never formed part of the War Office/MoD system and therefore can't be registered by them and they cannot claim this retrospectively decades later.

You've also stated that the first badge imaged is 'older' than the second one. I'd be curious to learn what you base that statement on?

alco · #25 30-03-16, 08:09 PM

Hello all ,

maybe this site will help to identify the castle :

http://rmhh.co.uk/conway/conway_house.html

http://rmhh.co.uk/conway/images/conw...vin_block2.jpg

(I'm not sure to understand all pics legends ...)

by the way, here are bullion versions of the castle ...
All the best.

renamelbages · #26 31-03-16, 06:53 AM

I am sorry War Stone but are the colours on the backing plate Guards Colours or not ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warstone

The stripes are correct as they aren't associated with the Conway Club badge but you're also correct that the castle fixing bolts prevent repositioning of the centre circlet. Renamelbages mistakenly attributed these as Guards colours.

Eddie Parks · #27 31-03-16, 11:41 AM

It's rather difficult to answer the last question precisely but - yes they are Guards colours. Are they exclusive to the Guards especially when associated with a naval crown? No

Perhaps some people don't realise that these badges have no official standing. They were made by a number of firms including Gaunts and sold in a wide variety of outlets including the Naafi fancy goods shops. There was no control over who bought them or who put them on their car. For PERSEC reasons they are not fashionable now and may even be banned for serving personnel.

Not so long ago there was a thread about an SAS car badge which reduced some members to apoplectic rage when it was suggested that just anybody could buy one and you didn't have to have been badged to qualify.

Eddie

alco · #28 31-03-16, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renamelbages

Good morning - can anyone please identify this J R Gaunt Car Badge in Guards colours , depicting a Castle Cap Badge (Gibralter ? Inniskilling ?) the badge shield has a Naval Crest.
Happy Easter to all & thankyou
RE

Hello,

No chance to represent GIBRALTAR :
the KEY under the castle is missing .... !

A+

alco · #29 31-03-16, 02:49 PM

'llo again

just found a very high level site dedicated to the car badges :

http://www.coltautobadgecollection.co.uk/index.php

and here is another copy of the castle badge :

http://www.coltautobadgecollection.c...egment_15z.php

no definitve ID yet again ....

a+

Warstone · #30 31-03-16, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renamelbages

I am sorry War Stone but are the colours on the backing plate Guards Colours or not ?

Yes, they are Guards colours. Are they Guards colours in the context of this badge. No.

They are Royal Navy colours but differentiated slightly because it's really a Merchant Navy badge, despite being HMS Conway. This picture may help clarify this - and incidentally shows another badge with a civilian naval coronet.