Rampant Lion (Blackened) .... who? What?

[manchesters]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

As I understand it ... in 1831 the Pembrokeshire Yeomanry was re-raised incorporating the still existing Castlemartin Troop.

This is a subject worthy of study me thinks

This is the Bugler's Coatee (yellow with blue facings) and white britches from the Carmarthenshire Yeomanry Cavalry..... the buttons have the POWFs and C Y C underneath them.
* I think this is held in Fishguard.

Surely thats Castlemartin Yeomanry Cavalry?

regards

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by manchesters

Surely thats Castlemartin Yeomanry Cavalry?

regards

Nope..... they were Blue/Buff facing.

[GriffMJ]

The Guidon of the Carmarthenshire Yeomanry Cavalry, presented by Lady Dynevor on 17th September 1804.

Sheet:- Scarlet with a gold fringe,
Front :- silver Prince of Wales badge with gold coronet. The motto scroll :- Blue with gold
Main scroll:- The motto "DROS EIN BRENHIN A'M GWLAD" (For King and Country) in black lettering on silvery blue.

Reverse:- Gold letters C Y C within a gold ring.

** See also:- Crown Imperial, March 1983, page 34.

[41st]

Griff,
I will happily conceded that a Carmarthenshire unit also used CYC as shown on your post of the Guidon, however if that tunic is on display in the market hall at Fishguard it will relate to the Pembs Yeo as the whole display relates to them/Castlemartin. I will take another look when I'm next down there. The PY cap badge on display and denoted as donated by a former member of the PY is a modern copy.
I have a copy of Meyrick's history and will trawl through it to see if I can find anything else but don't hold your breath as I rather suspect that different troops ostensibly all part of one unit will claim independence to one level or another. Glamorgan is another case in point with East, Central, West, Cardiff, Llantrisant Troops etc.

Hwyl,

Kevin

[GriffMJ]

Kevin

Trumpeter's uniform of Lord Dynevor's Troop of Yeomanry Cavalry.

This is the Bugler's Coatee (yellow with blue facings) and white britches from the Carmarthenshire Yeomanry Cavalry..... the buttons have the POWFs and C Y C underneath them. The bright uniform is to be seen on the field. The CYC Troops would have been Scarlet/Blue facings looking at the drawing..... but thats not confirmed.

** Held at the Carmarthenshire County Museum.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6994/...manrytrump.jpg

I think it was :-
George Talbot Rice, 3rd Baron Dynevor (Dinefwr) (8 October 1765 – 9 April 1852) was a British peer and politician. He was the son of Cecil de Cardonnel, 2nd Baroness Dynevor and George Rice (or Rhys). He matriculated at Christ Church, Oxford on 1 February 1783, and was awarded a Masters of Arts on 30 May 1786. Talbot Rice was the Tory Member of Parliament for Carmarthenshire from 1790 to 1793. He succeeded his father as Tory MP for Carmarthen, who served between 1754-1789.

He inherited the title in 1793 on the death of his mother. On 20 October 1794 he married Frances Townshend, third daughter of Thomas Townshend, 1st Viscount Sydney of St Leonards.

So Frances Townshend must have been Lady Dynevor.... and she presented the CYC with their Guidon in 1804?

[BROOKIES]

Griff.

There is also a h/m best shot medal for the Carmarthenshire Yeomanry Cavalry somewhere out there, from memory dated around 1800.

Bryn Owen had it once upon a time but moved it on as wasn't interested in it as it didn't have the name of the winner on it.

Ta

Jonathan

[GriffMJ]

Jonathan

It looks like the Black lion Arm badge is for the "Picton Troop" of the Haverfordwest Yeomanry Light Cavalry. The Picton Troop escorted King George IV around Pembrokeshire. (info in the above posts)

I shall have a trawl for that "Best Shot".... it might be on the TinterWeb.

[manchesters]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Jonathan

It looks like the Black lion Arm badge is for the "Picton Troop" of the Haverfordwest Yeomanry Light Cavalry. The Picton Troop escorted King George IV around Pembrokeshire. (info in the above posts)

I shall have a trawl for that "Best Shot".... it might be on the TinterWeb.

Jonathon,

You are all looking at the wrong period to ID the badge in my opinion.

Badges from that period did not have loops as the badge shown has. Fittings were much more crude and crudely fixed.

In any case, IF in those days NCO's wore arm badges they would have been in bullion.

That badge is Late 19th Century/20th Century.

I think the attribution to the Pembroke Yeo is correct and Bosleys certainly believed so, and so did at least two serious bidders to make such a strong price all those years ago.

regards

[GriffMJ]

Simon

I tend to agree about the age ..... BUT..... taking Bosley at face value (I know its a sin) ..... then my best guess would be the scenario I have described above?

The NCO Arm badge for the Pembs Yeo is the POWFs as with other Welsh & English Yeomanry (DHY being one, PWORWY, Cheshire, YorksH etc).

[GriffMJ]

Solved the Carmarthen colours anyway..... the Officers coatee is hanging next to the Trumpeters in the Carmarthen Museum. So "Sky Blue"/Scarlet Facing with silver lace..... !

White riding britches and Sky Blue overalls with broad silver leg stripe by the looks (Bob knew his stuff!). The Kepi appears to be Sky Blue, silver lace band (with device) with a japanned black peak.

The POWFs might belong to the Tarleton helmet..... certainly that sort of size (or sabretache)?

*** The Leicestershire Yeomanry Cavalry also had this "Sky Blue" colour as facings though....... with a scarlet coatee and sky blue overals with silver stripe (white riding britches).

[41st]

Griff,
The style of the PoW plumes badge matches with the type of period Georgian badges that I have and mentioned in my pm to you i.e. I do not believe the arm badge to be from this period but rather much later.

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by 41st

Griff,
The style of the PoW plumes badge matches with the type of period Georgian badges that I have and mentioned in my pm to you i.e. I do not believe the arm badge to be from this period but rather much later.

Agreed

[BROOKIES]

Originally Posted by manchesters

Jonathon,

You are all looking at the wrong period to ID the badge in my opinion.

Badges from that period did not have loops as the badge shown has. Fittings were much more crude and crudely fixed.

In any case, IF in those days NCO's wore arm badges they would have been in bullion.

That badge is Late 19th Century/20th Century.

I think the attribution to the Pembroke Yeo is correct and Bosleys certainly believed so, and so did at least two serious bidders to make such a strong price all those years ago.

regards

Simon

I know it's not that early.

I'm just adding to the thread, I said that I think this arm badge is 1890's, everyone else is mentioning earlier dates, just thought Griff would like to know about the medal.

Ta

Jonathan

[GriffMJ]

Just a note on the Pembroke Yeomanry.....

In 1794 :- "Gentleman and Yeomanry Pembroke"
Capt. Lord Milford
Capt. John Campbell
Lt. Dudley Ackland
Cornet. John Lloyd

In 1796:- Became "Castlemartin Yeomanry Cavalry"
Commanded by Lord Cawdor of Castlemartin

New Yeomanry
Post 1796:- "Haverfordwest (Dungleddy) Yeomanry Light Cavalry"
Commanded by Lord Milford
addition of the "Picton Troop" in 1819.

Source: The Welshman, 15th Sept 1905.

[41st]

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Here is the medallion version that was sold on DNW:-

Carmarthenshire Yeomanry Cavalry, regimental medal, in silver, 40mm, fitted with loop suspension; medal with three scratches in obverse field, about good fine, £40-60.

I was lucky enough to pick one of these up recently. There is an excellent article on the Carmarthen Yeomanry in one of the old MHS journals by Glover. The article confirms that Lord Dynevor presented a medallion to each man who had served in 1828 following their earlier disbandment the year before.
I have also been to view the uniforms on display at Carmarthen Museum and can confirm that there are no letters on the buttons of the officer's tunic.