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  #16  
Old 21-08-18, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Bull View Post
As this is the only double-marked Tiptaft Rising Sun I can find online, I can only compare it to single marked one's. I have found that all the single marked badges have the "Tiptaft & Son - Birmingham" stamp reading to the right. And the double-marked badge has the "Tiptaft & Son - Birmingham" stamp reading to the left. Is this a fact about these badges or can they be found being stamped both ways?
hi bull
not sure what you are talking about?
have you looked at the backs of the badges at the top of this thread?
bc
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  #17  
Old 22-08-18, 02:48 AM
Lancer 17 Lancer 17 is offline
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Bull

There are lots of threads under this heading here on the Forum. I seem to have posted on a dozen or so.

Mate, ONLY the double marked Tiptaft's are genuine, they have Tiptaft Birmingham stamped into the flat section of the back part, either side of the slider. The stamping on the slider is in two lines in small latters. Any Tiptaft with a single line of large letters on the slider and broad arrows and any with lugs and a tablet are just straight out FAKES.

As to price for a genuine Tiptaft, I think that they are all well over priced, I know where there is a genuine one for sale for over 100 pounds and I still haven't bought it, if that tells you something.

Go back within this thread and look at the previous posts and that will tell you all you need to know about these Rising Suns. have a good look at badgecollectors Tiptaft's in post 8 on this thread also Simon / Longshanks has posted photos of his genuine double stamped Tiptaft on several previous threads.

Regards

Phil.

Last edited by Lancer 17; 22-08-18 at 03:05 AM.
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  #18  
Old 22-08-18, 02:09 PM
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer 17 View Post
Mate, ONLY the double marked Tiptaft's are genuine, they have Tiptaft Birmingham stamped into the flat section of the back part, either side of the slider. The stamping on the slider is in two lines in small latters. Any Tiptaft with a single line of large letters on the slider and broad arrows and any with lugs and a tablet are just straight out FAKES.
Phil,

Just checking I’m reading this right. To me the above reads like you’re saying only the double marked Tiptaft badges are genuine. So if it has the correct stamping on the reverse (either side of the slider) but no mark on the slider you’re saying it’s a fake and also same applies vice-versa with correct mark on slider but no reverse mark?

I do agree re the large letter marks that appear to be from the same stable as the fake Thomas Fattorini, F.E.Woodward, BP&Co etc. I also agree that any badge with a broad arrow stamped on a slider is fake.

Cheers,

Luke
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  #19  
Old 23-08-18, 07:59 AM
Lancer 17 Lancer 17 is offline
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Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
Phil,

Just checking I’m reading this right. To me the above reads like you’re saying only the double marked Tiptaft badges are genuine. So if it has the correct stamping on the reverse (either side of the slider) but no mark on the slider you’re saying it’s a fake and also same applies vice-versa with correct mark on slider but no reverse mark?

I do agree re the large letter marks that appear to be from the same stable as the fake Thomas Fattorini, F.E.Woodward, BP&Co etc. I also agree that any badge with a broad arrow stamped on a slider is fake.

Cheers,

Luke
Hello Luke

Lets spell this out in words of one syllable.

A genuine Tiptaft has the words Tiptaft and Birmingham stamped on to the back of the badge either side of the slider AND it will also have the 2 line stamping in small letters on the slider its self, hence its marked twice not just having 2 words on the back of the badge. The striking on the back of the rising sun is part of the die and is created during the die stamping process. The slider is stamped in a separate operation during the making of the slider prior to it being attached to the badge. Also Jeff Cossum in his book on Rising Sun badges only lists one variety of the Tiptaft badge and this is the one with the name stamped onto the back of the badge and also on the slider .

I hope that this helps.

Regards

Phil.

Last edited by Lancer 17; 23-08-18 at 08:11 AM.
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  #20  
Old 23-08-18, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Lancer 17 View Post
Hello Luke

Lets spell this out in words of one syllable.

A genuine Tiptaft has the words Tiptaft and Birmingham stamped on to the back of the badge either side of the slider AND it will also have the 2 line stamping in small letters on the slider its self, hence its marked twice not just having 2 words on the back of the badge. The striking on the back of the rising sun is part of the die and is created during the die stamping process. The slider is stamped in a separate operation during the making of the slider prior to it being attached to the badge. Also Jeff Cossum in his book on Rising Sun badges only lists one variety of the Tiptaft badge and this is the one with the name stamped onto the back of the badge and also on the slider .
hi Phil
don't agree with you
i have 3 versions of the badge. (see my pics above) and i have provenance for all 3 types.
i have in excess of 20 marked badges. they include
1) the back of the badge marked,
2) the slider only marked
3) both back and slider marked.

i also have them finished in blackened brass, brass and bronze.

i cant believe there was only 1 die made and used for the 4 odd years they produced them, this could account for the variation in mark on reverse of badge.

with the mass production of badges in ww1 it doesn't surprise me that all sliders didn't get stamped. or that batches of badges didn't get sub contracted out to smaller firms for attaching sliders. or many other reasons?

that cossum doesn't show or list pics of other varieties in his book means nothing. they are not a definitive work (Jeff would be the first to admit this) and many of us have badges in our collections not listed or shown in Cossums books.

interested to hear yours and others comments
bc
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  #21  
Old 23-08-18, 11:24 AM
Lancer 17 Lancer 17 is offline
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Thanks BC

I stand to be corrected, if you have all the varieties that you list, Ive only ever seen the double marked varieties, my version is a family badge and has been in the family since WW1 and it came to me as they had no family. He was a 22nd Batt man.

So Bull, there you have it, there were in fact 3 versions of the Tiptaft Rising Sun as noted by BC above..

BC, I dips my lid to you mate.

Regards
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  #22  
Old 23-08-18, 11:32 AM
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all good phil
bc
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  #23  
Old 23-08-18, 12:00 PM
Luke H Luke H is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer 17 View Post
Hello Luke

Lets spell this out in words of one syllable.

A genuine Tiptaft has the words Tiptaft and Birmingham stamped on to the back of the badge either side of the slider AND it will also have the 2 line stamping in small letters on the slider its self, hence its marked twice not just having 2 words on the back of the badge. The striking on the back of the rising sun is part of the die and is created during the die stamping process. The slider is stamped in a separate operation during the making of the slider prior to it being attached to the badge. Also Jeff Cossum in his book on Rising Sun badges only lists one variety of the Tiptaft badge and this is the one with the name stamped onto the back of the badge and also on the slider .

I hope that this helps.

Regards

Phil.
Phil,

No need to use single syllables (albeit you didn’t) I can read, rather I just couldn’t believe what I was reading or that you believed such nonsense. British manufacturers, even ones which used marks, did not mark every single slider. Most conclusive of all if you look at the badges you’ll see many have a small flaw on the scroll border above the first A of Australian i.e. they’re from the same die. This flaw appears on badges without and with the variety of single and the double marks. As BC says you’re wrong, which I knew and was what I was driving at in a polite way, next time I will be more blunt.

Regards,

Luke
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  #24  
Old 24-08-18, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by badgecollector View Post
hi bull
not sure what you are talking about?
have you looked at the backs of the badges at the top of this thread?
bc
Thanks to everybody who has posted in regards to my query. However, I don't think I was clear enough in regards to what I was asking. Sorry. My query was to do with the "Tiptaft & Son - Birmingham" stamp on the actual slider on both the single & double-marked badges. They seem to be stamped in different directions. Check out the sliders on the two pics I've added.
One reads top to bottom & the other reads bottom to top (that's what I meant by left & right). Did all the double-marked badges have the stamp running along the slider in that top to bottom direction?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg To The Left.jpg (57.7 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg To The Right.jpg (84.8 KB, 12 views)
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  #25  
Old 24-08-18, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bull View Post
Thanks to everybody who has posted in regards to my query. However, I don't think I was clear enough in regards to what I was asking. Sorry. My query was to do with the "Tiptaft & Son - Birmingham" stamp on the actual slider on both the single & double-marked badges. They seem to be stamped in different directions. Check out the sliders on the two pics I've added.
One reads top to bottom & the other reads bottom to top (that's what I meant by left & right). Did all the double-marked badges have the stamp running along the slider in that top to bottom direction?
bull
i don't think that matters?
did you look closely at my pic of the various versions? all the maker marks going the same direction. there would be other things about a badge that may concern me other than the direction the maker mark was impressed
bc
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  #26  
Old 30-08-18, 05:38 AM
Bull Bull is offline
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Originally Posted by badgecollector View Post
bull
i don't think that matters?
did you look closely at my pic of the various versions? all the maker marks going the same direction. there would be other things about a badge that may concern me other than the direction the maker mark was impressed
bc
Yeah, I did notice that the badges in your pic all have maker marks going in the same direction on the slider. This is the direction I've always seen them so I found it odd that this other one has it written in the other direction. Thought it may be a rarity (which it may be) or perhaps a sign that it's a reproduction.
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  #27  
Old 17-09-18, 04:45 AM
Lancer 17 Lancer 17 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
Phil,

No need to use single syllables (albeit you didn’t) I can read, rather I just couldn’t believe what I was reading or that you believed such nonsense. British manufacturers, even ones which used marks, did not mark every single slider. Most conclusive of all if you look at the badges you’ll see many have a small flaw on the scroll border above the first A of Australian i.e. they’re from the same die. This flaw appears on badges without and with the variety of single and the double marks. As BC says you’re wrong, which I knew and was what I was driving at in a polite way, next time I will be more blunt.

Regards,

Luke
Hi Luke

Sorry for being slow to come back to you on this one.

As far as I knew and to the best of my knowledge the Tiptaft Rising Suns only came double marked, the one that I have is double marked and Ive never seen one that isn't. However Im happy to be corrected by BC and apologise to you for being so pedantic, this was however an honest error on my part.

These badges have been discussed many times in the past and as far as I know these facts have never come out previously.

So Im happy to be corrected and to apologise to you for my mistake.

Regards

Phil.
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