Monmouthsire Regiment Question

[CAM]

Hello,

can anyone tell me whether 1st - 3rd Monmouths ORs wore the same capbadge during the Great War.

Thanks

Chris

[Luke H]

Yes. The GM badge was worn by all the battalions on Service Dress pre 1920.

The WM version is attributed as being worn by 1st Battalion prior to 1920.

[CAM]

Thanks Luke.

Chris

[Frank Kelley]

Did the 1st Battalion actually wear both badges prior to 1920?

[49lassiepen]

Eddie would know

[spreadeagle]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Did the 1st Battalion actually wear both badges prior to 1920?

Here's 2 Monmouth Regt badges from my collection.
The reason I'm attributing the GM example as a 1st Bn badge,as it has evidence of being blackened at some time,and they were originally designated as a Rifle Bn.

[Frank Kelley]

Very many thanks, that is certainly very interesting, you do see members of the 1st Battalion wearing black buttons upon SD for example, not really something that I had even considered before.

Originally Posted by spreadeagle

Here's 2 Monmouth Regt badges from my collection.
The reason I'm attributing the GM example as a 1st Bn badge,as it has evidence of being blackened at some time,and they were originally designated as a Rifle Bn.

[Toby Purcell]

The 1st Battalion predecessor as pre-1880 RVC wore black insignia, i.e. in the KRRC’s colour (including glengarry badges), but in 1908 switched to the Rifle Brigade colour of silver (white metal) having in the interim been VBs of the SWB. The final badge included the WW1 honours and remained in silver, perhaps inspired a little by the design of the London Rifle Brigade, although that’s my conjecture. This switching between black and silver was not uncommon with former RVC after they became TF, especially in the London Regiment.

[Frank Kelley]

Indeed, I hope he will add to the thread in due course.

Originally Posted by 49lassiepen

Eddie would know

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

The 1st Battalion predecessor as pre-1880 RVC wore black insignia, i.e. in the KRRC’s colour (including glengarry badges), but in 1908 switched to the Rifle Brigade colour of silver (white metal) having in the interim been VBs of the SWB. The final badge included the WW1 honours and remained in silver, perhaps inspired a little by the design of the London Rifle Brigade, although that’s my conjecture. This switching between black and silver was not uncommon with former RVC after they became TF, especially in the London Regiment.

There is one missing from your list. From 1908 the 1st Bn wore both silver and brass (I suggest in No1 Dress and khaki caps respectively but am open to correction) before the brass one being the sealed for all 4 bns in 1915 when the ACD took over.

In 1925 was the wreath badge was adopted by the 1st Bn: this was initially in gilding metal before changing to w/m in 1929.

I have not seen any evidence of a blackened badge being an issue item but badges were blackened in some theatres for camouflage purposes.

[Frank Kelley]

Thank you, that certainly answers my question in post four, I would have thought that the white metal badge was worn upon the Service Dress cap, although, is often very hard to be sure from monochrome portrait photographs, the badges are so common.

Originally Posted by Alan O

There is one missing from your list. From 1908 the 1st Bn wore both silver and brass (I suggest in No1 Dress and khaki caps respectively but am open to correction) before the brass one being the sealed for all 4 bns in 1915 when the ACD took over.

In 1925 was the wreath badge was adopted by the 1st Bn: this was initially in gilding metal before changing to w/m in 1929.

I have not seen any evidence of a blackened badge being an issue item but badges were blackened in some theatres for camouflage purposes.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Alan O

There is one missing from your list. From 1908 the 1st Bn wore both silver and brass (I suggest in No1 Dress and khaki caps respectively but am open to correction) before the brass one being the sealed for all 4 bns in 1915 when the ACD took over.

In 1925 was the wreath badge was adopted by the 1st Bn: this was initially in gilding metal before changing to w/m in 1929.

I have not seen any evidence of a blackened badge being an issue item but badges were blackened in some theatres for camouflage purposes.

Thank you Alan, I think your suggestion that gm was probably for SD and wm for rifle green is correct. I have seen that clearly listed as the dress protocol before.

[Frank Kelley]

My thoughts remain unchanged, the white metal badges are very common and I would be surprised if this sergeant was not wearing such.

[Alan O]

Great photo and certainly a contender for a w/m badge. Knowing the Tf I would not be surprised to see a fair amount of mix-and-match in the use of both badge types.

[Frank Kelley]

Thanks Alan, postcard portrait was taken by William George Busby, 122a Chepstow Road, Newport who worked from his studio there prior to the Great War and well into the thirties, you can clearly see the tone of the Imperial Service brooch/tablet/badge which is similar to his cap badge.

Originally Posted by Alan O

Great photo and certainly a contender for a w/m badge. Knowing the Tf I would not be surprised to see a fair amount of mix-and-match in the use of both badge types.