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  #1  
Old 27-03-10, 10:04 AM
ProCoy ProCoy is offline
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Default NZMP

Looking for some advice as I am in the process of trying to add some NZ badges to my MIlitary Police collection, and am not sure what is available for NZ.

I am aware of the circular WW1 (also used in WW2 ??) period badge with the "New Zealand Military Police" wording and MP in the centre. Haven't got the badge yet but did pick up the collar dog.

I also have two shoulder titles, both NZMP in Brass but one straight and one curved. Not sure which period each comes from.
Lastly I have the anodised Royal NZ Provost cap badge.

Would appreciate any advioce oon which cap and shoulder devices I still need to get.
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  #2  
Old 27-03-10, 08:56 PM
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Tinto Tinto is offline
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Hi ProCoy,
Welcome to the Forum, a great lot of guys (and some gals, I think).
Here are my NZ Military Police badges. Not sure when the straight title was worn but think it may have been made in New Zealand when curved titles were in short supply.
Note that there are two types of collar badges, voided and non-voided crowns.
Good luck in your project,
Tinto
Attached Images
File Type: jpg NZMP.jpg (85.6 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg Corps of Royal New Zealand Military Police.jpg (97.1 KB, 27 views)
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  #3  
Old 28-03-10, 05:30 AM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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Hi ProCoy,

New Zealand has a complex history of military police that dates back to the 1860s, as such there is a wide variety of NZMP badges and insignia to collect.

Unfortunately unlike our British and Australian counterparts, very little has been recorded regarding the badges and insignia that was worn by New Zealand military police during WW1, between the wars and during WW2.

The book “The Regimental Badges of New Zealand” (New Zealand badge bible) by D. A. Corbett, contains only one short paragraph relating to this period, which contains no real information of when or who wore these badges. What information is given is rather non-specific and unfortunately slightly incorrect.

My own research is still a work in progress, but I will try and fill in some of the blanks for you.

Pre WW1 the NZ military police were formed on a ‘as needed’ basis, that is to say at a military gathering an officer would be selected to act as Provost Marshal wearing only a “PM’ armband, sometimes an Assistant Provost Marshal would also be appointed wearing an “APM” armband. The men were drawn as a normal ‘picket’ chosen by the Provost Marshal and generally did not wear any specific insignia while operating as military police, at most only ‘MP’ armlets may have been issued.

During WW1 there was in reality three different groups of Military Police.
Permanent New Zealand Military Police (Home Service)
Camp Military Police
NZ Expeditionary Force Military Police

The Permanent New Zealand Military Police (Home Service) came into existence in January 1915, and were responsible for maintaining order of troops within Wellington city and guarding the wharfs. Eventually the Permanent New Zealand Military Police were also stationed in the Auckland, Canterbury and Otago districts.
Initially only an MP armband identified them.
On the 27th of February 1915 the Permanent New Zealand Military Police made their first appearance in Wellington wearing the ordinary Territorial cap, with the crown made of red material (Commonly known as red caps). The cap badge and shoulder titles worn were the straight NZMP brass badges. Each man when out on duty carried a cane.
As yet I have been unable to determine an exact date of when the Permanent New Zealand Military Police adopted the cap and collar badges as in Tintos photo. (However four different manufacturers of these badges have been identified).
I can also only speculate that the curved NZMP titles (which in reality are cut down NZ mounted rifles shoulder titles) were issued when straight titles ran out.

The Camp Military Police were appointed by the Camp Commander and were drawn from men of the various reinforcement drafts. Primarily they maintained discipline within the camps in New Zealand and at train stations and on trains going to and from these camps.
Initially the Camp Military Police were generally only distinguished by the issue of large white belts, but later as the reinforcement badge craze (unofficial) gripped the reinforcement drafts, specialised Camp Military Police cap and collar badges were adopted by some of the men. (Hopefully Pukman will post some pics of his CMP badges)
Some collectors maintain that straight CMP shoulder titles were also worn by the Camp Military Police, however I am somewhat inclined to think that they are British shoulder titles and nothing to do with the NZ Camp Military Police.

The NZ Expeditionary Force Military Police were formed at the outset of WW1, as had been the case before the war a Provost Marshal was appointed and men were drawn on a picket basis and generally served only for a set period of time in that capacity. Only an MP armband identified them.
It was not until late January 1916 that the New Zealand Expeditionary Force in London established its own Military Police. (Initially drawn from men who served at Gallipoli)
Generally speaking the members of the then new New Zealand Military Police Corps were distinguished only by a blue puggaree worn on the lemon squeezer. The men continued to wear the badges of the corps that they were drawn from.

All I got time for now.

Brent
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  #4  
Old 28-03-10, 08:01 AM
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pukman pukman is offline
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Only to happy to help.This set is the Camp Military Police of the Featherston Camp.The other variety has ''Trentham'' on the scroll.These badges are scarce.

Cheers iain
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  #5  
Old 28-03-10, 10:16 AM
ProCoy ProCoy is offline
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Thanks for the great feedback guys !

So from what I understand the earliest MPs were somewhat like the British (and Australian) in wearing what we think of as shoulder titles, - also as cap badges.

Fascinating about the curved NZMP title. I'd never have noticed but can now see clearly where the "leg" of the "R" in NZMR has been removed to make it "NZMP". Mine is maker stamped on the reverse for Gaunt of London.

Am I right in thinking then that the WW1 period cap badge as shown on Tinto's photo was also worn in WW2 ( my thinking being that as there was no GVR cypher to be updated to GVIR and the crown didn't change, there would be no need for a new badge ?).

I just missed the early MP badge on EBay a couple of weeks back much to my disappointment and when I found one on a British dealers list what actually arrived was a collar dog. I kept it anyway as I'd have needed one of those too, so still looking for the badge.

I was totally unaware of the Camp Military Police badges. If you don't mind me asking what sort of ballpark figure should I expect to have to pay for one of these - assuming of course that I could find one.

I'm not scared of paying decent prices assuming I have the funds available, but my wallet is just recovering from paying out over £1300 for a rare WW1 Prussian military police Gorget !
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  #6  
Old 28-03-10, 08:48 PM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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So from what I understand the earliest MPs were somewhat like the British (and Australian) in wearing what we think of as shoulder titles, - also as cap badges.

Your understanding is spot on the mark.
The British laid down the foundations in 1912 for a special corps of military police called the ‘provost staff,’ to be established under the Commonwealth Compulsory Training Act.
It is my understanding the Australians established a Provost Staff in Melbourne in early February 1913 to trace shirkers and to generally supervise those liable for compulsory service. (An MP badge was worn on the front of the slouch hat and as shoulder titles)
New Zealand being much smaller in size and population did not form a permanent Provost Staff, instead it relied on the local constabulary to bring in its defaulters.

Am I right in thinking then that the WW1 period cap badge as shown on Tinto's photo was also worn in WW2 ( my thinking being that as there was no GVR cypher to be updated to GVIR and the crown didn't change, there would be no need for a new badge ?).

I believe you are correct in your thinking. As yet I have been unable to find period photographs of these badges being worn to prove my theories.
The badges provided by Tinto (Collar badges are hat badges with the scroll removed) turn up regularly for sale here in New Zealand. Of the four different manufactures, the ones made by C. M. Bay of Wellington seem to be the rarest. As such I can only speculate that these were the first issued during WW1. The ones made by Mayer & Kean of Wellington seem to be the most common and going by the two types of lugs used by M&K, I suspect these were worn by the NZ military Police who went to Samoa in the 1930s and during WW2 in New Zealand. (NZ military Police that served overseas during WW2 wore the standard NZ onwards badge)

I just missed the early MP badge on EBay a couple of weeks back much to my disappointment and when I found one on a British dealers list what actually arrived was a collar dog. I kept it anyway as I'd have needed one of those too, so still looking for the badge.

Beware that very good copies of these badges turn up regularly for sale.
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  #7  
Old 29-03-10, 12:06 AM
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pukman pukman is offline
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I have only seen one CMP cap badge on internet auction sites or on dealers lists in the past seven years.Accordingly it went quite mad as two bidders went toe to toe and ended up about $1200-$1300 NZ mark.

From memory i paid $115 on an internet auction and $165 form a dealers list for the collars.The cap badge i got off a well known collector for $625,although with a badge swop it actually cost me half that.

Others may have a better valuation, but i can gaurentee it won't be a badge that will come up for sale too often.

Hope this information is of some help


cheers iain
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  #8  
Old 30-07-19, 10:55 AM
milhistry milhistry is offline
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The WWII NZEF MPs wore standard NZEF"Onward" badges with British style MP armlets. If you Google National Library of NZ and search the photo archive for military police there are some photos.
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  #9  
Old 31-07-19, 08:27 AM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milhistry View Post
The WWII NZEF MPs wore standard NZEF"Onward" badges with British style MP armlets. If you Google National Library of NZ and search the photo archive for military police there are some photos.
Yes indeed, all but a couple of the 2NZEF units like the LRDG, wore the NZ Onward badge.

But what badge was worn by the NZ Provost Companies that were formed in each the 3 Military districts in NZ during WW2?
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  #10  
Old 01-08-19, 07:13 PM
milhistry milhistry is offline
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Good question! I think there are three possibilities. 1. WW1 badges 2. Regimental badges with armband if they came from another unit 3.Temporary Staff badges with armband. I have not come across a photo yet either to confirm or disprove anything. My thinking is if any WW1 badges were in the stores they may have been used. If men were posted to the units from the territorials or from another corps they may just have been given armlets for identification as provost and kept whatever they wore before. NZTS may be an option as I've seen a photo of an officer at one of three POW camps wearing the NZTS fernleaf badges.
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