British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Airborne, Elite and Special Forces Insignia

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-12-20, 09:12 PM
buttonhole badge buttonhole badge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 74
Default Maroon/blue/maroon?

I have a maroon/blue/maroon DZ with a 'pathfinder' arrow and have seen two similar badges, one with a 'lightbulb' and one with a lightning bolt, apologies for the elementary question but I don't have a Para reference book which covers these, please advise designation, thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-12-20, 10:00 PM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,647
Default

That is the 16 AA Bde PF badge. The lightning strike was an Afghan interation whilst the light bulb is not PF but the despatchers.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 13-12-20, 08:42 AM
Royal Royal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 201
Default

I've also seen the lightbulb version referred to as APJIs, but dispatchers makes more sense to me given that APJIs have their own wings...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 13-12-20, 09:07 AM
Alan O's Avatar
Alan O Alan O is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,647
Default

That's them. I could not remember the abbreviation for those who push paras out of doors.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 13-12-20, 12:42 PM
Royal Royal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 201
Default

Ah - different trades.

In that case its AJPIs - dispatchers (in men jumping out of aircraft terms) are (usually) RAF. Dispatchers who chuck pallets out of the back are (usually) army. APJIs (army or RM) provide training at unit level before guys go to jump out of the aircraft in question.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 13-12-20, 12:57 PM
Mark McClelland-Jones's Avatar
Mark McClelland-Jones Mark McClelland-Jones is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Moray, Scotland
Posts: 62
Default

...and just to keep us on our toes in this wonderful hobby...

Some Parachute Regiment soldiers have qualified as RAF Parachute Jumping Instructors and wear the RAF brevet on their chest. The TRF with lightbulb is worn by RAF PJIs attached to 16 AABde (all RAF PJIs are PTIs, hence the pic with the cpl wearing a PTI top). RAF PJIs who serve/have served with an Army para-role unit wear the Parachute Badge With Wings on their right arm in perpetuity - the PJI brevet continues to be worn.

Mark

CEB64134-76FE-48CF-ADD4-DE0487F59265_4_5005_c.jpeg

E981B648-DC31-48AF-B0C7-CA03F74CA255.jpg

91789550-2332-4D72-A000-E10A58FC76FD.jpg
__________________
RGJ & antecedent regiments | RIFLES | Post-Independence British Gurkhas | Royal Regiment of Scotland & antecedent regiments | Post-UDI Rhodesia | Indian Army
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 13-12-20, 12:59 PM
Mark McClelland-Jones's Avatar
Mark McClelland-Jones Mark McClelland-Jones is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Moray, Scotland
Posts: 62
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McClelland-Jones View Post
...and just to keep us on our toes in this wonderful hobby...

Some Parachute Regiment soldiers have qualified as RAF Parachute Jumping Instructors and wear the RAF brevet on their chest. The TRF with lightbulb is worn by RAF PJIs attached to 16 AABde (all RAF PJIs are PTIs, hence the pic with the cpl wearing a PTI top). RAF PJIs who serve/have served with an Army para-role unit wear the Parachute Badge With Wings on their right arm in perpetuity - the PJI brevet continues to be worn.

Mark

Attachment 236087

Attachment 236088

Attachment 236089
A correction: the PTI is Army per the insignia. RAF wear ranks and badges with blue facings. Sorry. But the same above applies.
__________________
RGJ & antecedent regiments | RIFLES | Post-Independence British Gurkhas | Royal Regiment of Scotland & antecedent regiments | Post-UDI Rhodesia | Indian Army
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 13-12-20, 01:10 PM
Colin S Colin S is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 294
Default Maroon and light blue DZ flashes

As has already been said, the DZ flash incorporating the pathfinder arrow is for the 16 AABde Pathfinder Platoon, while that with the parachute is for the Army PJIs. The DZ flash incorporating a lightning bolt was for 16 AABde Brigade Recce Force during the Afghan campaign. The BRF had the Pathfinder Platoon as it core but was augmented with other recce elements eg. engineer recce. All are based on the 16 AABde HQ DZ flash, which is the maroon and light blue vertical stripes but without any device on it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 13-12-20, 01:21 PM
grey_green_acorn's Avatar
grey_green_acorn grey_green_acorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,584
Default

Some pictures. The DZ flash with 'lightbulb' is or was worn by the first group of Army Parachute Jump Instructors qualifying at RAF Brize Norton in April 2017 when they were awarded a PJI half wing in army colours. see:

https://twitter.com/rafbrizenorton/s...12594346233856

Also showing the 16 Air Assault Brigade Pathfinder Platoon DZ flash and two versions of the Brigade Reconnaissance Force DZ flash which may not have been worn?

Tim (composing this while Mark posted his!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 16 Air Asslt Bde Pathfinders DZ x.jpg (6.8 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg PJI TRF (1).jpg (118.0 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg PJI TRF (2).jpg (120.5 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg Army PJI x.jpg (117.3 KB, 3 views)
File Type: jpg PJI Brevet x (3).jpg (64.1 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg 16 AA BRF x.jpg (117.4 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg 16 AA BRF x.jpg (18.5 KB, 4 views)
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm"
"Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!"
"Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."

Last edited by grey_green_acorn; 13-12-20 at 01:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 13-12-20, 01:24 PM
Colin S Colin S is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 294
Default

The maroon and light blue BRF DZ flash was worn but not the subdued ‘desert’ version. The thunderbolt arrow should point downwards.

Last edited by Colin S; 13-12-20 at 01:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 13-12-20, 01:30 PM
matti467's Avatar
matti467 matti467 is offline
Mr. Jackanory
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 1,816
Default

Got to say, ‘pushing paras out of a plane’ could be a dream job. At least you know that if they forget their parachute it wont do them much damage...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 13-12-20, 02:14 PM
buttonhole badge buttonhole badge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 74
Default Thanks

Just lost a long reply due to fat fingers and too far gone to re type...

I have read in, 'Badge Backings & Special Embellishments Of The British Army', written by a badge collecting QC ex army officer under the pseudonym C E Audax, that the white pathfinder arrow on maroon over green was the daytime version and black arrows were for night use. I find this hard to believe, was the black arrow not the 2nd version after the white?

I have a printed white arrow version, when did printed badges cease and switch to embroidered?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 13-12-20, 02:34 PM
grey_green_acorn's Avatar
grey_green_acorn grey_green_acorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,584
Default

Here are some examples. The 5 Airborne Brigade Pathfinder Platoon was for some time 'unestablished' and run using manpower and equipment borrowed from Brigade units. The first example is locally made while the second and third are machine woven. The black arrow version is described as subdued and is obviously more tactically sound. It is unlikely that DZ flashes sewn on smocks were changed from day to night!

Tim
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg 5 AB Bde Pathfinders ef.jpeg (23.9 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg 5 AB Bde Pathfinders DZ x.jpg (6.6 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg 5 AB Bde Pathfinders DZ subdued x.jpg (6.8 KB, 3 views)
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm"
"Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!"
"Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 13-12-20, 04:54 PM
buttonhole badge buttonhole badge is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 74
Default Unlikely

Yes, thanks, I thought that to be the case.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 13-12-20, 07:49 PM
Royal Royal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 201
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn View Post
It is unlikely that DZ flashes sewn on smocks were changed from day to night!

Tim
Indeed. I remember playing with PF Pl back in the early 90s and they had a habit of wearing their DZ flashes on the backs of their collars (so it was only visible when the collar of the para smock/hood of the windproof was up). I presume this hasn't persisted with the more recent habit of adding velcro to anything not nailed down and then sticking some kind of TRF or other badge on it...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:51 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.