Le Regiment de la Chaudiere - Shoulder Titles and Helmet Flashes

[chaudiere1944]

Hi all,

Just recently acquired this title. When I was a the LAC a couple of weeks back, a similar looking Title to this one was on a video I previewd and it was on the Battledress of a Captain on an exercise in the UK. The video itself was dated from 1939-43 so I must assume the title is dated between 1941-43.

Also...at long last I finally managed to get a Second World War Le Regiment de la Chaudiere Mk1 GSW 1941 Helmet with their Regimental Flash. It is painted and is a very early example. I have included also a picture of the first reference for the Helmet Flash (from June 1941) that was in the mound of additional information that was found with their War Diary at LAC. The time line in the LAC document makes sense because shortly after the Regiments arrival in the UK there are a number of pictures showing the Regiment with the Helmet Flash painted on rather than with an applied Decal which seems to have been more prevalent later in the war.

And for you Bill A., I have included the first reference to the Shoulder Titles that I found at LAC...it dates to late April 1941. The caption I believe is instructing them that they can only apply the Title to the Battledress...must have been some enterprising soldiers applying them elsewhere???

Mike Kennelly

[bagdeboy]

what about cap badges of la regimente de chaudiere?
what are they worth?

[Maisie]

Hello!
Does anybody know the origin of the decalc on the Chaudiere's helmet?
Why we find sometimes the blue color instaed of the maroon color?
Thank you for your help!
Maisie

[chaudiere1944]

Hi Maisie,

For Le Regiment de la Chaudière: the Helmet Decals, the Coloured Field Service Cap (CFSC) and the Shoulder Title colours were Maroon, Silver and Scarlet... these were chosen out of tradition and respect for the colours of the outer vestments worn by high ranking Canadian Clergy when they attended Papal Conclave's (meetings).

In the writings of Captain (Padre) Turmel, it indicates that the colours were specifically an homage to His Eminence, Cardinal Jean-Marie Rodrigue-Villeneuve, Archbishop of Quebec City. His claim to fame was that he actively helped the Regiment recruit men in spring/summer of 1940 from the rural areas of Quebec. The choice was well received since the composition of the Regiments soldiers at the time were generally from the rural areas of Levis QC who were practicing Catholics. The original drawing of Maroon, Silver and Scarlet appearing on the helmet is by Lieutenant Raymond Beaudet, an officer with the Regiment during that period.

Although I have seen pictures of Mark 11 helmets that appear to have a 'Blue' colour to them...I have always chalked it up to the printing/photographic process as the culprit. I have not held or examined one that has a 'Blue' colour so cannot comment specifically one way or another. All helmets I have seen and held have however had the Maroon, Silver, Scarlet colour scheme. Unless I was to receive a Helmet directly from a veteran with a 'Blue' rather than Maroon colour, I would be inclined to pass on it.

Sources for above noted: Personal Research, Jean Bouchery's Book (Canadian Soldier) and DND's website.

Best,
Mike

[chaudiere1944]

Here is a link to the image of a Chaudière Helmet with what appears to be a 'Blue' colour where it is supposed to be Maroon. As I mentioned in the last post I have always chalked it up to the printing/photographic process as the culprit for its 'blue' appearance....this particular helmet is in Jean Bouchery's book. As an aside, I would love to have this helmet in hand for a closer inspection.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mlq/4497466234/


Mike

[Maisie]

Thank you very much for your answer Mike!
Concerning the drawing on the helmets, 2 Mk III was found in Normandy with the "blue colour"...
Maisie

[chaudiere1944]

Hi Maisie,

Could you post pictures of the 2 helmets that were found in Normandy? Do you know the provenance behind the helmets...ie: battlefield pick-ups/relics, purchase from a veteran or attic discovery???

I am definitely curious as to their origin.

If authentic, could some form of oxidation process have occured? Has any other Forum member encountered a piece that could be explained in such a manner?

Mike

[Maisie]

The 2 helmets have been found in Normandy, one in a farm in Beny sur Mer, I don't know for the other helmet.
Moreover, I know the existence of several MK II helmet with the same colour.
I'll try to post pictures of the helmet if I could.

[servicepub]

There is a photo on my website at http://www.servicepub.com/helmetflashes.htm

[chaudiere1944]

Hi Maisie,

I definitely would like to see the photos.

I have a MK 1 in my collection which is posted earlier in this thread and it is Maroon, Silver and Scarlet. MK 11's that I have personally seen/handled also only have been in this colour configuration. All of these helmets reside here in Canada, strange that ones located in France would be Blue. The location of a farm in Beny-Sur-Mer is certainly a place I would expect a Chaudiere artifact to surface but the colour Blue is something I would not expect and am puzzled by.

The link to Clive's website with the picture of a MK 11 was actually a photograph I took back in 2008 while I visited the Chaudiere Museum in Levis, QC. In that picture, the decal is a pristine example that I believe was added to the helmet at a later date. Still, it represents what is supposed to be the colours of the decal.

I have attached a couple photo's of MK111's with decals that are clearly in the Maroon configuration. The better MK 111 was from this website which is located in the Netherlands. http://www.ergensinnederland1939-1945.nl/home
At the moment I cannot locate my source for the other picture.

Best,
Mike

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by Maisie

The 2 helmets have been found in Normandy, one in a farm in Beny sur Mer, I don't know for the other helmet.
Moreover, I know the existence of several MK II helmet with the same colour.
I'll try to post pictures of the helmet if I could.

Hello Maisie,

I guess you speak about this MKIII helmet which is supposed to have been found at Beny-Sur-Mer? In my opinion it is not a Chaudiere Regt helmet flash. You can compare here with an original Chaudiere flash on a MKII helmet in the regimental museum at Levis Quebec. There is no blue in the regimental traditions but dull cherry is everywhere! J-F

[chaudiere1944]

Hi Rubicon,

Thanks for posting the picture. Now that I have seen a picture of this Blue Chaudiere helmet my opinion is that it is highly suspect...it is not even in a shade of Blue that I believe could possibly have oxidized or faded from a Maroon colour which was an outside consideration I contemplated.

For all the reasons I have cited/researched about 1) the religious basis for the selection of the colours by the Regiment, 2)the examples I have handled personally, and 3)the photographs I have accumlated...I personally would not invest in one with this Blue configuration. I would only buy a MK 1, MK 11 or MK111 in the Maroon, Silver (White) and Scarlet colours.

The picture of the Chaud helmet in the Museum you posted looks like one of a number I took back in 2008. I was back at the Museum in August 2011 and made a close examination of this helmet's decal and as I mentioned before it was probably added later because the decal is virtually pristine and the helmet is not.


Mike

[servicepub]

I have uploaded about 40 additional images to the helmet flash website, including three new Chaudiere pix. http://www.servicepub.com/helmetflashes.htm

Clive

[Maisie]

Here is others helmet with the blue colour:

[Maisie]

Hi Mike,
the second helmet was found in a small village near Falaise, Normandy.
The helmet can be seen in the Montormel memorial.
Maisie