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  #1  
Old 24-03-20, 10:34 PM
Fuzzybadge Fuzzybadge is offline
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Default A missing Scots Fusilier sleeve badge...

Hi. Can anyone identify what cloth badge could have made this mark on the right sleeve of an post 1902 RSF NCOs frock? There are no other rank insignia.
Thanks for your help.
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File Type: jpg RSF sleeve mark patch.jpg (44.3 KB, 79 views)
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  #2  
Old 24-03-20, 11:22 PM
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Warrant Officer Class 1 - Bandmaster.

regards
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  #3  
Old 25-03-20, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Warrant Officer Class 1 - Bandmaster.

regards
Brilliant and spot on! The doublet is the senior warrant officer type, similar to an officer's, but with some differences of course.

CB
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  #4  
Old 25-03-20, 07:19 AM
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Default A missing Scots Fusilier sleeve badge...

Wow that was quick! Thanks very much both.
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  #5  
Old 25-03-20, 11:31 AM
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Bandmaster, yes, most certainly. However, it is not a 'doublet', but a Scottish pattern serge frock. Doublets were full dress garments, and marked by uniquely distinctive 'Inverness Flaps' on the skirts. The equivalent of the 'tunic' worn by the rest of the line, they were also made from a super-smooth cloth, with a fine nap, known as Doeskin.

Conversely the serge frock seen here was made from a more coarse cloth in which you can see the warp and weft as it forms ridges in the cloth, and also had simple pointed pocket flaps in the skirt with three lines of doubled braid or piping as decoration. The frock was generally an undress garment and when worn in India was unlined, but it was used there in lieu of full dress doublets that were heavily padded or quilted and too warm to wear in such a hot climate. The doublets were also comparatively expensive and damaged by sweat.

You can see images of the two garments in dress regulations for the British Army 1900, and I enclose some photos below. Note the Inverness flaps that appeared at front and back, compared with the simplicity of the frock. Other regiments of the line also wore a serge frock, but without the uniquely Scottish features.

The Scottish frock was primarily worn by the three lowland regiments and used in lieu of the white, waist length 'drill order' shell jacket. Highland regiments only used the scarlet serge frock, in the field, prior to its replacement by SD in 1902, although it was used by those highland battalions in India, as explained above (see B&W photo of HLI soldier).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg A&SH Doublet.jpg (57.8 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg RSF First Class Doublet (WOs) pocket flap.jpg (38.7 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Bandmaster 1.jpg (34.3 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Genuine-93Rd-Highlanders-Argyll-Sutherland-Tunic-_57 (3).jpg (43.8 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg AN13-Sergeant-Major-The-Royal-Scots-Fusiliers-1900-scaled.jpg (16.9 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg RSF.jpg (43.6 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg HLI India.jpg (41.3 KB, 19 views)

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 28-03-20 at 01:00 PM.
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  #6  
Old 25-03-20, 11:39 AM
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Lovely thing, out of interest the 'patch' shape appears lighter, would we not expect darker underneath as rest of the uniform is exposed to the elements? Regards Mark
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  #7  
Old 25-03-20, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
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Lovely thing, out of interest the 'patch' shape appears lighter, would we not expect darker underneath as rest of the uniform is exposed to the elements? Regards Mark
If worn in bright sunlight and used over a lengthy period of service yes, but in this case the frock's relatively pristine condition (note the gilt braid that was not sythetic then and tarnished with age) suggests that it was not in use for very long and the outer surface has simply become a little grubby.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 25-03-20 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 25-03-20, 02:42 PM
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It is indeed not a doublet, as I mistakenly referred to. I have, and have had, several examples of this type of garment over the years.
I find that when insignia is missing, the underlying cloth is invariably lighter as these old garments most always tend to darken a bit with age soiling. I have never seen one that exhibited sun fading, but scarlet super fine or Melton does change shade to some degree depending upon how it was stored over the years.
A good brushing and wipe down with a damp towel often restores them quite well.
My regular OR's RSF doublet for reference.
CB
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Last edited by cbuehler; 25-03-20 at 02:51 PM.
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  #9  
Old 25-03-20, 06:50 PM
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Thanks Toby & CB, appreciated. Regards Mark

Last edited by MarkGD; 25-03-20 at 06:51 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #10  
Old 26-03-20, 06:01 PM
Fuzzybadge Fuzzybadge is offline
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And to you all for your comments and discussion. All I now need to do is find the badge!
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  #11  
Old 26-03-20, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzybadge View Post
And to you all for your comments and discussion. All I now need to do is find the badge!

I collect Warrant officer badges and Gold Bullion on scarlet with a Kings Crown is very hard to find.

However I have a spare.

Send me a PM if you have a big wallet

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  #12  
Old 27-03-20, 03:27 PM
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This is my example if a KC badge. Came from Canada.

CB
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  #13  
Old 28-03-20, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbuehler View Post
It is indeed not a doublet, as I mistakenly referred to. I have, and have had, several examples of this type of garment over the years.
I find that when insignia is missing, the underlying cloth is invariably lighter as these old garments most always tend to darken a bit with age soiling. I have never seen one that exhibited sun fading, but scarlet super fine or Melton does change shade to some degree depending upon how it was stored over the years.
A good brushing and wipe down with a damp towel often restores them quite well.
My regular OR's RSF doublet for reference.
CB
Unfortunately I have seen a sun faded doublet, a Volunteer one with silver lace and w/m buttons, the owner of a Peterborough (England) junk shop acquired it and put it in the window of his shop.
I offered to buy it simply because it was going to get ruined but he wouldn't sell it because he'd bought it to display in the window and attract attention to his otherwise easy to miss little shop.

Over the next few years it became very badly faded along one side. Absolutely trashed.
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  #14  
Old 28-03-20, 03:54 PM
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Another example of almost criminal waste, that doublet. The sun also degrades the fabric in addition to fading.
I guess they actually get sunshine sometimes in that part of England

CB
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